Captions or Subtitles?

[VolkerS]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Our only technical option are subtitles. We cannot support CC over HDMI (at least for 720P and higher resolutions). Technically CC is only defined for 480i over s-video and composite but most TV's typically also support CC over component for 480i and 480p.

One of the obstacles so far has been to actually get the subtitles for VOD content from the studios.

[RonV]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Thanks Volker...I knew you would come though with the technical reason and also reiterate that its up to the studios to provide the subtitles...I have been doing research myself and so far there is no "Industry Standard" for the synchronization of CC text with MP4 content.

[NA9D]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Very good info. I would rather have subtitles than CC for movie viewing anyhow as it just tends to look better. It is something that would be nice to have...

[Rusdude]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Our only technical option are subtitles. We cannot support CC over HDMI (at least for 720P and higher resolutions). Technically CC is only defined for 480i over s-video and composite but most TV's typically also support CC over component for 480i and 480p.

One of the obstacles so far has been to actually get the subtitles for VOD content from the studios.

Is this a Vudu limitation or in general? Because Moxi HD DVR supports CC and it outputs 720p over HDMI.

[NA9D]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Is this a Vudu limitation or in general? Because Moxi HD DVR supports CC and it outputs 720p over HDMI.

Again, as was clearly stated by Volker, the issue is getting the CC or subtitled source from the content providers. Additionally, we are talking about streaming MPEG-4/H.264 video here. So far only Apple has provided closed captioning on streamed content. There are some technical issues there as well, but one of the biggest is just getting it from the content providers.

[Rusdude]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Again, as was clearly stated by Volker, the issue is getting the CC or subtitled source from the content providers. Additionally, we are talking about streaming MPEG-4/H.264 video here. So far only Apple has provided closed captioning on streamed content. There are some technical issues there as well, but one of the biggest is just getting it from the content providers.

I apologize if I wasn't clear but my question wasn't about CC/subtitles in general, but about this specific portion of the quote: "We cannot support CC over HDMI (at least for 720P and higher resolutions)".

I found it interesting because the Moxi box I have does display closed captioning in 720p over HDMI (tried it with OTA HD-recorded "Pushing Daisies" a couple of days ago). Unless it was supposed to read that the TV's "CC" button wouldn't work which is true for Moxi as well. (you have to turn CC on/off in Moxi's menu).

I am not trying to start a commotion (like the one in the open source thread), just genuinely interested. And honestly, if I had a pick, I'd go with DVD-style subtitles because they look better, IMO.

In a perfect world -- disregarding limitations of streaming technology and source material -- it'd be great if Vudu could replicate physical media more closely and have multiple audio and subtitle options that DVDs have (for commentary, different audio modes, etc). Obviously, it is not as important as other items on the wish list (HD rentals, pretty please!), but we can dream, right?

[VolkerS]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Unless it was supposed to read that the TV's "CC" button wouldn't work which is true for Moxi as well. (you have to turn CC on/off in Moxi's menu).

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. CC is encoded text that is part of line 21 in ntsc and the TV is responsible for displaying the text. My definition of subtitles in this context simply was that we have to render the text on our box and cannot send CC data to the TV. We just need to get at the matching text (in whatever format: DVD subtitles, closed caption data, or in any other way that syncs the text with the video) in some form for VOD content. Then we will transcode this to an internal common format link it to the video content.

[Rusdude]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. CC is encoded text that is part of line 21 in ntsc and the TV is responsible for displaying the text. My definition of subtitles in this context simply was that we have to render the text on our box and cannot send CC data to the TV. We just need to get at the matching text (in whatever format: DVD subtitles, closed caption data, or in any other way that syncs the text with the video) in some form for VOD content. Then we will transcode this to an internal common format link it to the video content.

Thank you for your explanation!

[malone]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Hi all,

Another hearing impaired person here. I'm genuinely interested in this.

VolkerS: Did the studios respond to your request for subtitles for VOD content? If yes, what did they say? I wonder if they will provide you the subtitles the same way they already are doing for Apple. Is cost involved? It shouldn't be since subtitles come standard on virtually all DVDs.

Subtitle availability is my main deciding factor between the Vudu and Apple TV. I'm still giving a little time (not a lot) for Vudu because it uses P2P and has larger video selections.

According to a 2005 journal, there are 10,000,000 hard-of-hearing people and 1,000,000 deaf people in USA. Add many more who are ESL (foreigners learning English). More consumers are switching from tangible DVD rentals to on-line rentals every day. Vudu may want to jump on the subtitle bandwagon before losing some consumers to AppleTV!

Just giving motivation I am Canadian, although it should be possible to register Vudu with a USA address, like many foreign people have done with Apple TV.

I don't have the exact numbers, but there are a few million hearing impaired people in Canada alone.

Thanks,
Mark & Ami

[NA9D]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Just giving motivation I am Canadian, although it should be possible to register Vudu with a USA address, like many foreign people have done with Apple TV.

Your IP address is Canadian. Even if you "register" with a USA address, the box will still not work because your IP address will not be in the USA IP address pool. Therefore, the box will not work.

At present, Vudu is functional inside the USA only.

[malone]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Interesting, I did not know Apple TV and Vudu does an IP check. Thanks for the heads up. That's stopping me from buying either!

I wonder how other countries manage to get their USA content with a USA account and address. Proxy server to mask IP address, perhaps? That can't be good for bandwidth.

[NA9D]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Why would you not buy either because they check your IP? That's kinda silly since most people have IP addresses that change regularly...

For crying out loud, you gotta give both a credit card number. And you are worried about an IP?

[MaxH]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Interesting, I did not know Apple TV and Vudu does an IP check. Thanks for the heads up. That's stopping me from buying either!

I wonder how other countries manage to get their USA content with a USA account and address. Proxy server to mask IP address, perhaps? That can't be good for bandwidth.

Well, they would need to either pirate it (), or have a license for that country/region from the US content owner.

Let's not get too involved in discussing how to circumvent licensing or encryption. Remember, VUDU has to make deals with the "content owners".

[Rusdude]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Why would you not buy either because they check your IP? That's kinda silly since most people have IP addresses that change regularly...

For crying out loud, you gotta give both a credit card number. And you are worried about an IP?

No, he's outside the US, so would be unable to get any US-only content from iTunes or Vudu due to his IP address being Canadian.

[aaronwt]

Re: Captions or Subtitles?

Why would you not buy either because they check your IP? That's kinda silly since most people have IP addresses that change regularly...

For crying out loud, you gotta give both a credit card number. And you are worried about an IP?

I guess we shouldn't mention the button presses.