DMA vs. UV

[Walter-S_North_Carolina]

Below is a quote by financial professionals concerning the effect of DMA.

UltraViolet has received a one-two punch in less then a month. First DMA announced an iTunes exclusive. Second, a media raking over the coals from Veronica Mars supporters being forced to use Flixster. These come on the heels of the loss of Mitch Singer as Sony Pictures Entertainment let him go in January as apart of a division downsize. Mr. Singer is one of the most prominent voices in the DECE community and is acting president of DECE, but his loss of status at Sony can not be easily downplayed.

These events have placed the long term viability of UV into serious question.

My one consolation is I know the consumer electronics market is highly volatile. It may only take one press release from DECE to again shift the tide and regain momentum.

Quote:
"The launch of Disney Movies Anywhere has caused speculation about its impact on the future of digital delivery and UltraViolet. But assessing the merits of Disney and Apple's union in the cloud depends on who you ask.

Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter said Disney's refusal to join UltraViolet undermines the platform and industry's attempt at conformity, the latter key to wider consumer adoption.

"People don't want several cloud-based storage lockers segmented by the provider of content; that's like having one refrigerator for Coke and another for beer," Pachter said.

On the other hand, Russ Crupnick, senior media analyst with The NPD Group, said Disney's service could help both EST and UltraViolet.

"The more consumers are exposed to digital ownership and device interoperability the better, and the Disney brand carries the clout to build awareness and usage, regardless of the platform," Crupnick said."

Sadly, I am left for the first time since becoming a supporter of UV frightened of the outlook, but am somewhat hopeful the DECE members can provide a measure of confidence to the consumer community during this very difficult time.

[terpfan1980]

Re: DMA vs. UV

It's a marathon, not a sprint, and we're a long way from the end. That's what inspired me to talk so much smack previously. I want things to be more clear, and I'd like to be able to use a single service to get to anything, but if I'm left using a variety of services but am still able to do it from all of my devices then I will still be OK.

I'd have loved to have seen Amazon get smarter and get an app out for Android devices (which they did for iOS devices). Yeah, yeah, I know I can use a Kindle Fire, but what if I have an Android phone or a different Android tablet that I prefer to use for some reason or another. Nope, sorry, can't use Amazon's instant video on it and for that reason I tend to completely ignore any thought of getting digital content (purchased or rental) from Amazon. Even though I have a Kindle Fire HDX that I can get content on I just don't want to hand them money if they aren't supporting my devices and preferred usage patterns.

On the DMA side, I don't want it to be locked into iTunes and that may yet prove to be a very limiting factor for DMA. Until/unless they add some additional partners (which I'd like to see Vudu become one of), they will be limiting their own potential customer base. Sure there are vocal iTunes fans, but there are plenty of people that hate iTunes with a passion and don't want to support them at all. Without choice, DMA is likely to remain slowed in their growth while the UV side is able to build up (slowly) their own momentum with a library of every other studio's content. As much as I think Disney's content is very important, they ain't all that and they ain't the only players with valuable content. (Warner's and the Harry Potter collection come to mind as a bit of an important competitor)

In the next several years the landscape will certainly change and we'll be left thinking back on the old days with all of the confusing choices and wondering a bit how we ever made it through those times to where we'll be later. That said, it is still a time when the various players need to work harder to get customers to try their services and learn how easy things can be (and yes, they also have to work harder to make things easier on customers so no one feels like it is too much work to even think about redeeming a Digital Copy, or renting a flick that way, etc.)

[YankeeGator6]

Re: DMA vs. UV

I think...and hope...the second opinion you quoted is the correct one. Showing people that they really aren't losing anything with cloud based media is the key to growing the industry. That said, it would be great for UV to come back with a major announcement, such as getting the MGM back catalog, having a major retailer like Amazon joining, or even finally launching the CFF.

There are a lot of problems with DMA, but first and foremost, it is almost useless if you don't own an Apple TV, iPad or iPhone. I do have an Apple TV and set the account up, but I haven't used it since. I have it hooked up to my bedroom television and it is essentially just there for Netflix. I primarily use my Roku downstairs, and that seems to suit my needs just fine. My hope is that DMA at least teams up with Vudu moving forward and will offer the same file sharing that they did with the initial launch as I never actually redeemed most of my iTunes digital copies. It would be great to get my Marvel and Pixar films into my Vudu library without having to shell out $20+ dollars once again.

[BlakkMajik3000]

Re: DMA vs. UV

The fact that UV is available on devices other than Apple is enough to keep it viable. People don't want to be locked to hardware, which is exactly what services like iTunes and Amazon Instant Video do.

The only thing I remain concerned about is the fact that DECE still has not released a single CFF encoded file. Being able to not only stream from different devices, but also the promise that I would be able to download a single file and play it anywhere was a big reason I supported UV. The lack of CFF files is what irritates me, and the reason I haven't done any D2D in quite a while (even though I have acquired many discs since my last transaction).

I have even gone back to the process of ripping my own DVDs. As I've said many times, with more restrictive bandwidth limits by ISPs, the ability to stream over my local network is a big deal. I had hoped CFF files would alleviate me from the tedious process of ripping my own media for local network playback, but here we are. It's 2014 and still no sign of the CFF. That bothers me, because it leads me to believe they are more concerned with trying to keep the files from being pirated than delivering what they promised over a year ago.

[prometheus242]

Re: DMA vs. UV

My 2 cents:

The biggest disadvantage UV and its partners has is the disjointed effort on its use and education to consumers.
Disney has the name recognition, consumer trust, financial resources and the catalogue to create a strong competitor or turn the industry direction over time as much as I hate to admit it. I think the other studios hate Disney as much as we hate them doing their own proprietary solution but if consumers start preferring because the Disney way is "easier" UV is in trouble. They haven't even dropped the "Star Wars" bomb yet - that torpedo is just sitting there loaded. I am a supporter of UV and have made a significant financial investment in a relatively short period of time in Vudu/UV; however as a consumer these are my observations:

1) Few consumers out there understands UV and how the providers work. The consumer education on this front is atrocious. I work in technology and initially had no idea that Vudu was a front-end provider of UV and so was Flixster. I had movies I had claimed via Flixster but had no app on my TV that could play them--then one day I discovered I had the Vudu app that I never used and I could make that the provider instead--again this was totally lost on me.
2) There are huge advantages to UV yet nobody knows they exist. When you claim a digital copy you may or may not ever figure out the UV site exists and that you can do things like share your content with other people - try doing that with iTunes/DMA. The disc to digital option is a huge advantage- at a reasonable price point you can take old content and move it to UV with even an option to upgrade to HD. Again, on the DMA/ITunes you'd be buying the movie again at full price. Flexible providers and --the promised but yet delivered downloadable content are also nice features. But too few know these things exist.
3) The claim system is goofy- all titles should be claimed on the UV website- this also would bring visability to the features UV can offer and simplify things for consumers. But of course even if that were true, if you get them to the UV site, its broken and been in beta forever--that's the opposite of comforting. Every studio has somewhere you need to go to enter the digital code- each represents a more confusing path for the end consumer.

As for Vudu....
4) I liked that Walmart bought it simply because that should mean you have a deep pocket build the brand and build awareness. So far in my experience its just not there. Walk in and try to do a disk to digital (which I had to do when a few of mine wouldn't recognize on VudutoGo) -- you might find one person who knows what you are talking about. No commercials, no anything but stickers on some DVDs in the bargain bin.

5) The Vudu ios app needs a lot of improvement- most people are confused by it- it has horrible reviews and pales in comparison to the Disney Movies Anywhere app they just released (even though it just fronts iTunes) its look and feel are modern and doesn't feel clumsy and doesn't have the iOS 7 makeover. The Vudu app should have two buttons for streaming and downloading. Most don't understand you tap the movie to stream and then hit download to use it offline. almost everyone just downloads it offline and they get frustrated with how long it takes. Oh and if you leave the app it stops---how about implementing ios "Background app refresh" so it can continue downloading while I do something else. It also needs parental controls. I share my collection via UV with my kids so only PG Movies are presented to them--but oh yeah Disney isn't included in that- so when my daughter wants to watch Frozen I need to use the iTunes copy instead. The only way they can use my Disney movies via vudu is if I signed into their ipads with my primary vudu account which would give them all of my titles which I can't do as a responsible parent.

[terpfan1980]

Re: DMA vs. UV

The fact that UV is available on devices other than Apple is enough to keep it viable. People don't want to be locked to hardware, which is exactly what services like iTunes and Amazon Instant Video do.

The only thing I remain concerned about is the fact that DECE still has not released a single CFF encoded file. Being able to not only stream from different devices, but also the promise that I would be able to download a single file and play it anywhere was a big reason I supported UV. The lack of CFF files is what irritates me, and the reason I haven't done any D2D in quite a while (even though I have acquired many discs since my last transaction).

I have even gone back to the process of ripping my own DVDs. As I've said many times, with more restrictive bandwidth limits by ISPs, the ability to stream over my local network is a big deal. I had hoped CFF files would alleviate me from the tedious process of ripping my own media for local network playback, but here we are. It's 2014 and still no sign of the CFF. That bothers me, because it leads me to believe they are more concerned with trying to keep the files from being pirated than delivering what they promised over a year ago.

CFF would be something else that would certainly help get the momentum back on the UV side again. Not being able to simply download a copy of a movie that I can then watch on any device I want to watch it on is most definitely hampering things and as you've noted, it sends people back in the direction of d-i-y.

[echopulse]

Re: DMA vs. UV

DMA has the advantage right now. As I stated in the other thread, there are a few things DECE could do to get the ball moving in the other direction.

* Release the CFF
* Make MGM a partner and release a lot of its catalog with UV
* Roll out the common redemption site.
* Sign on a large retailer

If they do any 2 of those, they will be looking good.

[terpfan1980]

Re: DMA vs. UV

DMA has the advantage right now. As I stated in the other thread, there are a few things DECE could do to get the ball moving in the other direction.

* Release the CFF
* Make MGM a partner and release a lot of its catalog with UV
* Roll out the common redemption site.
* Sign on a large retailer

If they do any 2 of those, they will be looking good.

I was thinking along these same lines. If the UV consortium were able to add Google or Amazon as a partner, it would likely be game over. Google would be the most valuable of those two since it would pretty much open up all Android devices to UV content. Of course that might also really irritate other partners (like Vudu).


It is all a little frustrating and irritating because there are so many possible options and no guarantee that a purchase made through any one partner is going to be available everywhere. A couple of co-workers and I have talked this over many times. One of those co-workers tried to anticipate the market place a bit and just decided quickly to give up since he couldn't be assured that any choice he made was going to work all the time. That included buying into iTunes a bit, buying into Vudu a bit, etc. In the end he decided it was better to just wait and keep on waiting. This is a co-worker that spends money on entertainment pretty quickly (as do I) so it isn't like he wouldn't be putting his money where his mouth is.

[echopulse]

Re: DMA vs. UV

I think Amazon would be much more valuable than Google. According to NPD, Amazon had 15% of digital sales in 2012. Google Play was just starting to sell movies at that time. I doubt many people use it. There is no Google Play app for Roku, or Smart TV's. It's pretty much limited to mobile and PC's.

[Grey Ghost]

Re: DMA vs. UV

No reason they can't coexist and each be successful, especially if other partners join DMA.

[terpfan1980]

Re: DMA vs. UV

I think Amazon would be much more valuable than Google. According to NPD, Amazon had 15% of digital sales in 2012. Google Play was just starting to sell movies at that time. I doubt many people use it. There is no Google Play app for Roku, or Smart TV's. It's pretty much limited to mobile and PC's.

See above and again consider that Google would likely mean Android, which would mean pretty much the range of Android tablets and smartphones.

Also consider the Chromecast, Google TV and other options.

I understand on the Roku mention, but by the same token Roku would still offer up a pretty good range of choices for UV partners (as would Smart TVs).

I realize that Amazon has a pretty good size in the market, and my thought would be that if you could get Google first it would likely be one of the final straws that would push Amazon into partnering up with UV themselves. If UV eventually pulls in Google and Amazon, that would most certainly push Disney pretty hard.

[MaxH]

Re: DMA vs. UV

IMO Amazon and Google would be pretty evenly matched in terms of influence. Another advantage Amazon has over Google's huge reach into the entire Android market is that Amazon is on a lot of set top boxes, and so readily available on a lot of TVs. Roku and TiVo have Amazon Instant Video apps, and those are fairly popular STBs. (The Amazon app is probably also on a lot of smart TVs and BD players, but I mostly use the two I cited, hence my comment. )

[Walter-S_North_Carolina]

Re: DMA vs. UV

It's a marathon, not a sprint, and we're a long way from the end.

Interesting analogy.

If an athlete signs up for a marathon, shows up on race day after having trained and is at the starting line with a handful of others when the starting gun is fired, if that athlete develops cramps and a strained calf muscle, they will not be able to finish.

The last few weeks have been very difficult. Can our runner stay in the race and recover or is this a death blow?

I do think these events can be classified as nothing but serious and raise some very serious questions as to long term viability. I do hope it is as you suggest and over a spell, the matter is righted.

I think Sony who has been a prominent DECE member is soon to deliver on an in home streaming TV service. Perhaps that being UV too will be enough to set things right. There are a lot of Playstation consoles in homes and add to that all the Sony televisions.

[echopulse]

Re: DMA vs. UV

I think this whole Veronica Mars snafu was blown way out of proportion. According to what I've read less than 20,000 people eligible for a digital copy, and only a small (but vocal) minority of those complained about it. A lot of people just wanted iTunes copies, they didn't necessarily have trouble downloading it. If DECE continues to improve their system, this will be soon forgotten. If they improve their website, launch the CFF, and pick up a few more retailers, UV will pick up plenty of stream.

[mike568]

Re: DMA vs. UV

DMA needs to link to Vudu, Amazon Instant Video, Google Play, and Target Ticket. The more choices consumers have to watch their Disney Digital Copies the better. I have some Disney/Marvel movies in my Vudu account that I don't have in my DMA account. I have an Apple TV 2nd generation from iPhone days so I do get some use out of DMA.

Sony needs to make the PlayStation Store UV compatible to help make UV stronger.