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iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

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    #16
    Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

    Originally posted by jbloggs View Post
    Not sure if it's already mentioned, but you can merge UV libraries but you cannot merge iTunes libraries
    I mentioned that...linking digital lockers.

    Comment


      #17
      Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

      Originally posted by jbloggs View Post
      Not sure if it's already mentioned, but you can merge UV libraries but you cannot merge iTunes libraries
      Thank you. That would be more of a comparison between iTunes and UltraViolet. I was doing iTunes and Vudu in this thread.

      Comment


        #18
        Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

        What are you hoping to do with this chart? Maybe we should make an UltraViolet fan site, and put this chart, along with your other one, on it.

        Comment


          #19
          Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

          Originally posted by echopulse View Post
          What are you hoping to do with this chart? Maybe we should make an UltraViolet fan site, and put this chart, along with your other one, on it.

          GREAT QUESTION!!!

          my motive was to compile an objective side-by-side comparison of the Vudu video service with that of iTunes. Many iTunes loyalist find it superior and I fail to find reason to agree.

          Further, the fact that the name of the Apple Corp. video service is called iTunes with the word "Tunes" in the name of the product leaves me hesitant.

          It is like if KFC starting to sell hamburgers I probably would stick to the baconator at Wendy's instead. If Vudu started a music MP3 service, I would also probably not find it worthwhile.

          Now at VUDU HD MOVIES, buy your MP3 audio files?

          Same with iTunes offering Video. It just feels like a bolted on retro-fit. I can not find an objective reason to say it is any better.

          The iTunes groupies seems blinded by their Apple Corp. fandom.

          Comment


            #20
            Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

            I understand that, but the people reading this thread are already likely aware of the differences. My question really was how are you planning to get this chart to the audience that needs to see it.

            Comment


              #21
              Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

              ...not really my intention. The Vudu forum was simply a convenient place to locate it.

              I am too complacent and lethargic to be an evangelist. The crystalline clear 1080p combined with the 5.1 sound has more or less lobotomized me from frequent exposure to such high quality visual and auditory stimuli.

              This has sadly left me an endorphin junkie who spends his waking moments seeking his next opportunity to watch a title or two on Vudu.

              Comment


                #22
                Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

                iTunes has free e-mail support. You initiate by reporting a problem via iTunes or on Apple's site, but everything is done through e-mail.

                Complaining that the iTunes Store is somehow problematic because it has 'tunes' in the name did provide a good laugh. I have to assume that was for laughs because there's no way to take that seriously. It's a brand, not a literal description.

                In fact, iTunes sold millions of videos before VUDU was even released to the public in 2007. iTunes has a 64% share of EST in 13H2 vs. Amazon's 15-ish% and VUDU's <5%.[1] No hesitation on the consumer's part that I can see regarding iTunes.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

                  Originally posted by Zu Nim View Post
                  iTunes has free e-mail support. You initiate by reporting a problem via iTunes or on Apple's site, but everything is done through e-mail.

                  Complaining that the iTunes Store is somehow problematic because it has 'tunes' in the name did provide a good laugh. I have to assume that was for laughs because there's no way to take that seriously. It's a brand, not a literal description.

                  In fact, iTunes sold millions of videos before VUDU was even released to the public in 2007. iTunes has a 64% share of EST in 13H2 vs. Amazon's 15-ish% and VUDU's <5%.[1] No hesitation on the consumer's part that I can see regarding iTunes.
                  The history of the iTunes product from Apple Corp. stems from an initiative to provide an internet mechanism to sell RIAA content. Thus the word "TUNES" with the prefix "i". This became widely successful as an alternative to purchasing CDs.

                  I am glad to read a response from a iTunes supporter. You are correct with the market share. The precise numbers are difficult to pin. Regardless,...

                  The inertia from the success of selling MP3 files containing RIAA content made iTunes the defacto standard for other EST content and they have remained the leader due to their brand awareness and raw consumer inertia.

                  I do challenge you to find a report indicating that the iTunes market share of EST MPAA content sales is growing.

                  None exist. Their market share is shrinking.

                  This trend is making the bond market nervous. Apple Corp. failed to make a triple "A" rating as a result. Fear is that so much of their black ink comes from the iTunes brand that their continued loss of market share poses a clear and present threat to their long term financial viability.

                  We have passed the point where playback of MPAA content on an iOS device as a novelty is the target market. In that arena, Apple will continue to dominate for perpetuity, unchallenged.

                  It is when a consumer market would like playback of MPAA content onto their home TV where Apple has a less compelling service offering. To do so, a consumer need buy an AppleTV set-top box for every TV in their home. Further, if they are one of the 83% of the global cell phone users who use android, iTunes purchased products of MPAA content is unavailable for playback.

                  iOS has lost market share in the global cell phone foot print over the past year by 3%. Android has gained.

                  Apple has lost market share of MPAA EST. Vudu has risen from obscurity. Recently, there have been several fortune 500 companies who have joined DECE. You may have read where the MSO cable industry is preparing to offer EST sales to their customer via an UltraViolet enabled library system.

                  The trend is unambiguously clear. Apple Corp. has lost their footing. The once prominent iTunes brand who consumers flocked to for the purchase of MP3 RIAA content is now eroding.

                  Just as an example. About a year ago if you walked down the DVD/Bluray isle of your local retailer, the iTunes logo was exclusive as the method for digital copy redemption.

                  That market evaporated from Apple Corp. in front of everyone's eyes and has been replaced by the purple UV logo to a stunning degree. Over half of the studios offering MPAA content will not even allow the iTunes logo on their products any more. The other half use it in conjunction with the purple UV logo, except for the good folks in Burbank.

                  I would be interested to read how you feel the trend is in favor of iTunes when what is increasingly becoming commonly accepted that the iTunes brand is an antiquated method for EST delivery.

                  You may wish to pay for EST products within the walled garden of Apple Corp.'s iTunes. With their loss of market share, the stunning loss of the digital copy redemption market, and their continued failure to reverse their decline from grace on the global cell phone landscape, I would consider that akin to an act of charity.

                  I do not make purchases as a form of charity. I look for longevity. iTunes has no such comfort, IMHO.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

                    Originally posted by Walter-S_North_Carolina View Post
                    I am glad to read a response from a iTunes supporter. You are correct with the market share. The precise numbers are difficult to pin.
                    Wrong. No idea what your definition of an iTunes "supporter" is. I have hundreds of titles in iTunes and UV. I choose the products that work for me and I know how to comprehend facts.

                    Wrong. Not hard to pin. iTunes EST market share has held fairly steady in the mid-60s for several years. Apple might want it to grow but consumers don't need a monopoly. As choices increase, market share dominance should shrink. It hasn't (yet).

                    In fact, it appears Comcast has been taking the bulk of the EST market that iTunes and Amazon don't have. Not VUDU.

                    This trend is making the bond market nervous. Apple Corp. failed to make a triple "A" rating as a result. Fear is that so much of their black ink comes from the iTunes brand that their continued loss of market share poses a clear and present threat to their long term financial viability.
                    Wrong, and irrelevant. You've introduced facts well out of your depth. So I'll add an equally irrelevant point about bonds: Walmart's contemporaneous bond issue is rated lower than Apple's. Neither has any predictive power regarding the future of iTunes or VUDU.

                    To do so, a consumer need buy an AppleTV set-top box for every TV in their home.
                    True, and misleading. To watch VUDU on the big screen, one has to buy a similarly priced box, too. Likely a Roku, maybe skimp with a Chromecast. Or perhaps you're suggesting everyone should buy a brand new smart TV? Not exactly the argument I think you want to try making.

                    Further, if they are one of the 83% of the global cell phone users who use android, iTunes purchased products of MPAA content is unavailable for playback.
                    Wrong, and irrelevant. "MPAA" content, by which you must mean iTunes music, is available to play on all devices. There's no DRM. If you've purchased a device in the past five years that can't play MPEG-4 (AAC) audio, blame the device. And any cellphones that can play MPEG-4 video can play MPEG-4 audio.

                    iOS has lost market share in the global cell phone foot print over the past year by 3%. Android has gained.
                    True, and irrelevant. This is a global issue for Apple, not a U.S. one, and you're comparing iTunes to VUDU, remember? But your point is still irrelevant. There's no massive international UV market to speak of so Android gains mean nothing. And perhaps you've heard the rumors that iTunes may be coming to Android...

                    Apple has lost market share of MPAA EST. Vudu has risen from obscurity. Recently, there have been several fortune 500 companies who have joined DECE. You may have read where the MSO cable industry is preparing to offer EST sales to their customer via an UltraViolet enabled library system.
                    Meaningless. Apple currently holds such dominance it can only lose market share. Every new product has to rise from obscurity. There are statements of the obvious, not meaningful points.

                    Comcast has 15% of the EST market, so that's great news for UV if that comes to pass. (Don't hold your breath. Where are the two UV retailers rumored for last year?)

                    The trend is unambiguously clear. Apple Corp. has lost their footing. The once prominent iTunes brand who consumers flocked to for the purchase of MP3 RIAA content is now eroding.
                    Facts not in evidence. Laughable.

                    Just as an example. About a year ago if you walked down the DVD/Bluray isle of your local retailer, the iTunes logo was exclusive as the method for digital copy redemption.
                    True, and irrelevant. The studios want more control over pricing and they don't want to pay 30% to Apple. If I was a studio I'd want the same. But that says nothing about where consumers continue to make their EST purchases. They're still going to iTunes. It's not even neck-and-neck. iTunes blows VUDU's sales out of the water. >60% to <5%.

                    I would be interested to read how you feel the trend is in favor of iTunes when what is increasingly becoming commonly accepted that the iTunes brand is an antiquated method for EST delivery.
                    Facts not in evidence. No evidence of that trend, nothing antiquated about iTunes delivery and nothing commonly accepted about anything you've said.

                    You may wish to pay for EST products within the walled garden of Apple Corp.'s iTunes. With their loss of market share, the stunning loss of the digital copy redemption market, and their continued failure to reverse their decline from grace on the global cell phone landscape, I would consider that akin to an act of charity.
                    Misleading. News flash: UV is a walled garden, too. You just like the view better. I can't take my UV purchased content and put it anywhere I like. Tell me how to watch VUDU content on a TiVo. Or store a movie on my home server for in-home viewing.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

                      Zu Nim,

                      I guess I touched a nerve challenging your strongly held beliefs and triggered a defense mechinism. I can appreciate you have an invested interest in a positive outlook for the future of iTunes since you own many titles in iTunes. It is an understandable reaction.

                      Microsoft Corp. has a triple A bond rating. Apple Corp., a competitor of theirs, was up for review and a specific reason given for their failure to obtain a triple A rating was the threat to their iTunes brand from the mounting list of valid competition. How you can suggest this is irrelevant is beyond me.

                      Concerning the obligatory set-top box requirements, I feel I did an objective job of the comparison in the original post. Feel free to let me know if you disagree.

                      For the two retailers, I believe Target Corp. is one of the two you are searching for. They ranked 36 on the Fortune 500 in `13 and are currently the third largest retailer in the US. This makes the top list of retailer awfully purple. Wal-Mart, Target, Barns & Noble, and BestBuy all operating Ultraviolet streaming services. Who do you think the second may be? I have some ideas and am curious to see what happens in the coming months.

                      Now, for the walled garden comparison; PowerDVD recently announced their new version (v13) will play CFF. Of the two services (iTunes & Ultraviolet) iTunes obligates iOS. UV works on just about any CE device in existence. Your ice is pretty thin on the suggestion that UV is a walled garden just the same as iTunes.

                      Sincerely,

                      Walter

                      BTW,
                      MPAA = Motion Picture Association of America (nothing to do with music)
                      RIAA = Recording Industry Association of America

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

                        Originally posted by Zu Nim View Post
                        Wrong. Not hard to pin. iTunes EST market share has held fairly steady in the mid-60s for several years. Apple might want it to grow but consumers don't need a monopoly. As choices increase, market share dominance should shrink. It hasn't (yet).
                        If this be the case, pls find me somewhere I can evaluate an objective set of market sales numbers concerning the iTunes sale of MPAA content to customers wishing playback in-home instead of on a mobile iOS device. The comparison I seek is iTunes sales for AppleTV playback vs. sales for playback via a UV vendor. Mid sixties is not realistic.

                        I have looked and can not find any such numbers. All are generalized numbers which are obviously heavily padded with iTunes' decade+ entrenched brand loyalty within the consumer model of playback on a mobile iOS devcie. The UV DECE is but two years old. Already, they have become the fastest adopted standard in MPAA history. BluRay, DVD, VHS, BetaMax did not have such a rapid adoption as what we are seeing with the DECE standards. iTunes is not even an objective standard with which to compare.

                        D.E.C.E. is a consortium of 85+ member companies working to develop a standard for digital delivery. They are a non-profit organization. This is the method standards are developed.

                        iTunes is a product from a for-profit company. The chances of iTunes becoming a digital delivery standard are about as close to zero as is statistically possible.

                        Much more likely is that at some point in the future, Apple Corp. will join DECE.

                        Just as now there are bluray players in the new line of X-Box Ones instead of HD-DVD players, so too, once the UV eco-system becomes the standard for delivery of digital MPAA content, Apple Corp. will need to join DECE. I suspect it will take about half a decade for that to happen. By then, Apple Corp. will be a marginalized player with their 13% of the global cell phone foot print down in the mid single digits.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

                          Originally posted by Zu Nim View Post
                          Wrong. Not hard to pin. iTunes EST market share has held fairly steady in the mid-60s for several years. Apple might want it to grow but consumers don't need a monopoly. As choices increase, market share dominance should shrink. It hasn't (yet).

                          In fact, it appears Comcast has been taking the bulk of the EST market that iTunes and Amazon don't have. Not VUDU.
                          This report from NPD states that iTunes had 65% of the EST market. In 2012. It is now 2014, and UltraViolet was just starting to grow in the second half of 2012. The marketshare for iTunes has shrunk, and the marketshare for UltraViolet has grown significantly in 2013. So it's useless to compare numbers that are two years old.

                          Originally posted by Zu Nim View Post
                          True, and misleading. To watch VUDU on the big screen, one has to buy a similarly priced box, too. Likely a Roku, maybe skimp with a Chromecast. Or perhaps you're suggesting everyone should buy a brand new smart TV? Not exactly the argument I think you want to try making.
                          For over a hundred million people, they don't have to buy a new device to stream UltraViolet content. In 2013 alone, 100 million SmartTV's or streaming boxes were sold. Apple has only sold 20 million Apple TV's since its debut.

                          The Connected TV Landscape

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

                            CFF?

                            Oh, good grief. Can we wait for it to actually exist in the wild before we point to that as a factor? My personal opinion: it is NEVER coming (just as managed copy never came). It has been two and a half YEARS since UV titles came to market. I guess if you choose to believe that there are still "technical kinks" being worked on, that's your right.

                            Anyway, to me, CFF would facilitate two things:
                            (1) offline, in home streaming from a central file repository;
                            (2) and side loading of files onto a portable device.

                            Looking back to the original page, Apple already achieves these goals, albeit within their "walled" ecosystem. You can't stream in-home to a DLNA compliant TV, but you can to an AirPlay device, so the objective can be met. And obviously sideloading to apple devices has always been possible through iTunes, though the clear move over the last few years has been away from the need to plug a device into a PC or Mac to sync files.

                            Vudu, a service I use daily, and like very much, can't accomplish either offline in home streaming, or side loading to a portable device. And, for my use case, I don't care.

                            To me, the clear industry push is (1) online streaming in-home, and (2) direct downloads to portable devices. When I travel, I use Vudu To Go on my tablet, and it works great! And I use online streaming at home, though I thankfully live in an area with broadband and high (or suspended?) caps. Relatives in rural areas can't rely on streaming video like I can. That stinks.

                            If CFF ever comes, great. I'd use it! My loved ones would use it! But my best guess is that the powers that be in the industry will point to online streaming options like Chromecast, and in-app downloads on portable devices, and declare "Mission Accomplished".

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

                              Originally posted by nyunole View Post
                              CFF?

                              Oh, good grief. Can we wait for it to actually exist in the wild before we point to that as a factor? My personal opinion: it is NEVER coming (just as managed copy never came). It has been two and a half YEARS since UV titles came to market. I guess if you choose to believe that there are still "technical kinks" being worked on, that's your right.

                              Anyway, to me, CFF would facilitate two things:
                              (1) offline, in home streaming from a central file repository;
                              (2) and side loading of files onto a portable device.

                              If CFF ever comes, great. I'd use it! My loved ones would use it! But my best guess is that the powers that be in the industry will point to online streaming options like Chromecast, and in-app downloads on portable devices, and declare "Mission Accomplished".
                              I agree that it feels as though CFF has been stuck in perpetual development.

                              The only reason I mentioned it (and I was hesitant in doing so) was there are some very recent press releases about it in connection to PowerDVD v19.

                              I sincerely do not know if this is reflective of actual development progress out of DECE or simply a feature backfill off the laundry list of the folks at PowerDVD.

                              I guess we will wait an see.


                              ZZZzzzzzz....

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: iTunes / Vudu Comparison:

                                I don't believe that DECE will just abandon their Common File Format, after so heavily promoting it. On the UV website, there is a UV players button, front and center, which takes you to a page that describes UV files. There has also recently been a new DRM (DIVX) approved. Two companies have recently launched products which will support UV. In March there was a DECE consortium meeting in which they decided to change the launch date to the second half of this year. The CFF is not just a container, it's an actual file format with video, audio, subtitle, and metadata specifications that must be met. It is very complex. There are several companies tasked with encoding and testing the files before deployment. I am sure they want to get all the files created before they launch the new system, and there are 12,000 titles to get ready. Plus they have to get all the software updates ready for all the blu-ray players from at least 8 different hardware manufacturers. Remember, the CFF specification was just finalized in November. Things take time. I never expected it would be ready before the fall.

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