Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

[PJLVudu]

The Samsung app on my Ultra-High Definition TV model UN65HU8550FXZA only plays Dolby Digital 5.1, not Dolby Digital Plus. The TV supports Dolby Digital Plus via the HDMI Audio Return Channel (ARC). If I use my Sony Blu-ray player (BDPS5200) app, a Samsung Blu-ray player (Samsung BD-H5900/ZA) app, or I cast to my Chromecast with the Vudu app the sound is Dolby Digital Plus (for applicable content of course) as it should be. Samsung confirmed that the TV fully supports Dolby Digital Plus (not just Dolby Digital 5.1), so what's going on? Does this UHD version of the app not support Dolby Digital Plus?

[jeremymc7]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

The Samsung app on my Ultra-High Definition TV model UN65HU8550FXZA only plays Dolby Digital 5.1, not Dolby Digital Plus. The TV supports Dolby Digital Plus via the HDMI Audio Return Channel (ARC). If I use my Sony Blu-ray player (BDPS5200) app, a Samsung Blu-ray player (Samsung BD-H5900/ZA) app, or I cast to my Chromecast with the Vudu app the sound is Dolby Digital Plus (for applicable content of course) as it should be. Samsung confirmed that the TV fully supports Dolby Digital Plus (not just Dolby Digital 5.1), so what's going on? Does this UHD version of the app not support Dolby Digital Plus?

When the app boots up does it say 5.1, or does it say 7.0 and you only get 5.1?

[VolkerS]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

Unfortunately some Samsung TV's do not support DD+ over the HDMI ARC. They are technically still "DD+ compliant" since they correctly transcode DD+ to DD.

We use Samsung's underlying playback technology, so this is not a limitation of our app. It is actually more work for the App to transcode audio from DD+ from DD.

Most likely this is a limitation of the ARC hardware. Are you sure that you get DD+ from any other App on your TV?
As far as I know our Chromecast App uses AAC for audio, not DD+. You are probably getting 7.1 channels but not DD+ in that case?

If you indeed get DD+ over ARC on that TV with other Apps we will reach out to Samsung to fix this. I will ask our to QA double check as well.

[PJLVudu]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

Unfortunately some Samsung TV's do not support DD+ over the HDMI ARC. They are technically still "DD+ compliant" since they correctly transcode DD+ to DD.

We use Samsung's underlying playback technology, so this is not a limitation of our app. It is actually more work for the App to transcode audio from DD+ from DD.

Most likely this is a limitation of the ARC hardware. Are you sure that you get DD+ from any other App on your TV?
As far as I know our Chromecast App uses AAC for audio, not DD+. You are probably getting 7.1 channels but not DD+ in that case?

If you indeed get DD+ over ARC on that TV with other Apps we will reach out to Samsung to fix this. I will ask our to QA double check as well.

Samsung says their HU8550 supports DD+ and your app is the problem. Your response? I am unhappy being caught between two vendors pointing fingers at each other as to who's product is not functioning properly and who is responsible or fixing it. Thanks.

[PJLVudu]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

When the app boots up does it say 5.1, or does it say 7.0 and you only get 5.1?

I get DD 5.1, not Dolby Digital+. The Vudu streams info page indicates DD+ (for DD+ content of course) but the signal is only DD5.1.

[VolkerS]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

Samsung says their HU8550 supports DD+ and your app is the problem. Your response? I am unhappy being caught between two vendors pointing fingers at each other as to who's product is not functioning properly and who is responsible or fixing it. Thanks.

We will get to the bottom of it. Would be helpful if you could confirm that any other App or connected device actually sends DD+ over your HDMI ARC to your receiver. Again, Samsung is supporting our DD+, they just convert it to DD before sending it to your receiver. We are of course the ultimate owner of the App so we will make sure that we use the underlying hardware to its full capabilities. Please stay tuned.

[PJLVudu]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

We will get to the bottom of it. Would be helpful if you could confirm that any other App or connected device actually sends DD+ over your HDMI ARC to your receiver. Again, Samsung is supporting our DD+, they just convert it to DD before sending it to your receiver. We are of course the ultimate owner of the App so we will make sure that we use the underlying hardware to its full capabilities. Please stay tuned.

Thank you for this reply and the commitment to get to the bottom of this. If you can eventually provide any technical details that I can take back to Samsung if it is indeed their problem I will be happy to do so.

I've always been very impressed with Vudu support -- and again thank you for this effort.

[sjm817]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

From what I understand, you cannot pass DD+ out an ARC or Toslink port. A DD+ stream will be converted to DD 5.1.

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...nnel-conundrum
ARC can convey Dolby Digital, DTS, and PCM, but none of the advanced codecs, such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD. After all, none of these codecs are used with over-the-air, cable, or streaming content.

http://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-aud...n-channel-arc/
Also, ARC only passes Dolby Digital. So those new high-resolution audio formats available on Blu-ray discs, namely Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD, are unavailable over ARC. This isn't the TV manufacturers' fault, but it's still annoying.

[VolkerS]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

Unfortunately Samsung confirmed that they cannot support DD+ over HDMI ARC. They will always convert to DD first and they won't be able to fix this for existing models.

[PJLVudu]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

Unfortunately Samsung confirmed that they cannot support DD+ over HDMI ARC. They will always convert to DD first and they won't be able to fix this for existing models.

Well they're telling you one thing and me the opposite. They maintain to me that they support DD+ via ARC (I am aware DD5.1 only via optical due to bandwidth limitations) on this model, and it is a deficiency of your app because their hardware has the DD+ codec. Netflix tells me they are updating their app for DD+. I'm not saying your response is not true -- I'm just pointing out the contradiction in what I am being told. Your response is disappointing because it indicates that a $35 Chromecast device can do this but a $3,500 TV cannot.

So the customer is in the middle again. But thanks for checking.

[PJLVudu]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

From what I understand, you cannot pass DD+ out an ARC or Toslink port. A DD+ stream will be converted to DD 5.1.

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...nnel-conundrum
ARC can convey Dolby Digital, DTS, and PCM, but none of the advanced codecs, such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD. After all, none of these codecs are used with over-the-air, cable, or streaming content.

http://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-aud...n-channel-arc/
Also, ARC only passes Dolby Digital. So those new high-resolution audio formats available on Blu-ray discs, namely Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD, are unavailable over ARC. This isn't the TV manufacturers' fault, but it's still annoying.

Your statement that DD+ is not used for streaming content is in error. A number of streaming services, notably Netflix and Vudu, support streaming DD+ on a number of platforms, including Netflix on Chromecast, Windows 8 and my Sony Blu-ray player.

Also, the article in the link is out of date as it was written at a time when the Dolby Digital+ codec was not routinely included in TVs. That is no longer the case, at least for the Samsung model I own

[Jake]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

Well they're telling you one thing and me the opposite. They maintain to me that they support DD+ via ARC (I am aware DD5.1 only via optical due to bandwidth limitations) on this model, and it is a deficiency of your app because their hardware has the DD+ codec. Netflix tells me they are updating their app for DD+. I'm not saying your response is not true -- I'm just pointing out the contradiction in what I am being told. Your response is disappointing because it indicates that a $35 Chromecast device can do this but a $3,500 TV cannot.

So the customer is in the middle again. But thanks for checking.

Did you hear this from a customer support rep or directly from one of their engineers working on the product? If the former, I'd trust Volker's answer more than Samsung customer support.

And the Chromecast does *not* use ARC for audio. ARC = Audio Return Channel, which is a way for a TV to send audio *back* to a device that is normally an HDMI source, i.e. a receiver, etc. The Chromecast (just like your BD player) sends HDMI audio in the forward direction, which of course does support DD+ bitstreaming.

[PJLVudu]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

Did you hear this from a customer support rep or directly from one of their engineers working on the product? If the former, I'd trust Volker's answer more than Samsung customer support.

And the Chromecast does *not* use ARC for audio. ARC = Audio Return Channel, which is a way for a TV to send audio *back* to a device that is normally an HDMI source, i.e. a receiver, etc. The Chromecast (just like your BD player) sends HDMI audio in the forward direction, which of course does support DD+ bitstreaming.

I was informed in a email reply from an engineer. As I stated in my post, I was not disagreeing with Volker's post -- I was just pointing out the discrepancy between that and Samsung's communications to me. I have always appreciated Vudu's technical support based on my own experience and through reading various forums -- they are far superior to most other companies, and quickly acknowledge issues and then get them resolved.

I know that Chromecast does not use ARC, and I fully understand ARC. (Thank you for your tutorial, but it was not necessary but might have been beneficial to those that do not have the knowledge I have.)

The HDMI 1.4 specification (which introduced ARC) supports the bandwidth required for Dolby Digital+. It uses prior unused HDMI pins for the return audio data. Up until recently, TVs did not routinely support Dolby Digital+ (they did not have the codec) and many did not even support Dolby Digital 5.1. That is no longer the case.

So why would a TV support Dolby Digital+ if it couldn't supply the sound to a device that can take advantage of it, like an AVR used for sound that is better than that provided by TV speakers? (I'm not aware of any that have more than stereo speakers.) Said another way, why would Samsung include the Dolby Digital+ codec in their TV if it was not useable via any means like ARC and therefore have no real utility?

[Jake]

Re: Dolby Digital Plus on Samsung UHD App

Up until recently, TVs did not routinely support Dolby Digital+ (they did not have the codec) and many did not even support Dolby Digital 5.1. That is no longer the case.
...
Said another way, why would Samsung include the Dolby Digital+ codec in their TV if it was not useable via any means like ARC and therefore have no real utility?

All TVs that VUDU has supported since 2009 have had DD+ decoders, since that's what VUDU has always used as the audio codec. The utility is that DD+ compresses better for the same quality, which is important for streaming applications where bandwidth is critical.

Anyway, as stated before - *ARC* in HDMI 1.4 does not support DD+. As far as I know it is actually S/PDIF. Here's the HDMI official FAQ if that helps:

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdm..._4_faq.aspx#15

Which audio formats are supported over the Audio Return Channel?
The Audio Return Channel supports all the same audio formats that can be sent through a traditional S/PDIF audio connection, including Dolby Digital, DTS, and PCM audio.