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Rentals

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    Rentals

    I thought all movies were going to be offered as rentals or purchases. I was going to rent American Gangster last night and the only option is to purchase. This sucks

    #2
    Re: Rentals

    I wish we could find some vehicle for users to directly address their irritation with this to the stubborn studios that make the rules.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Rentals

      Originally posted by Bill@LakeGeorge View Post
      I thought all movies were going to be offered as rentals or purchases. I was going to rent American Gangster last night and the only option is to purchase. This sucks
      Vudu has never made this claim that I am aware of. There are a lot of movies that are rental only. There are a lot of movies that are purchase only. There are a lot of movies that are both. No new releases, except for Warner Brothers movies, are available for rental on the day they are released to DVD. They are all purchase only (again, Warner Brothers is the only one who is giving both rental and purchase on release day). This is likely not going to change soon.

      The reasons for this are complex and are not easy to explain from what I have learned. It all has to do with licensing from the "content owners." That may or may not be the studio...

      And actually, if I read your comment literally, it is correct. All movies can be purchased or they can be rented. But not all movies can be purchased AND rented.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Rentals

        Originally posted by NA9D View Post
        Vudu has never made this claim that I am aware of. There are a lot of movies that are rental only. There are a lot of movies that are purchase only. There are a lot of movies that are both. No new releases, except for Warner Brothers movies, are available for rental on the day they are released to DVD. They are all purchase only (again, Warner Brothers is the only one who is giving both rental and purchase on release day). This is likely not going to change soon.
        You know I'm still not clear on something in regards to movies only... so maybe you can answer this for me.

        Do movies that only show the option to purchase, ever be available for rent?

        And movies that show only rental, ever become available for purchase?

        Or is it... some movies that are purchase only will always and ONLY be available for purchase and never allow you to rent, and some rental only movies will always and ONLY be available for rental and never be available for purchase.

        After-all there are many new releases for example that show you can purchase or rental only, but may or may not ever be available for rent or purchase??

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Rentals

          Originally posted by rstone View Post
          You know I'm still not clear on something in regards to movies only... so maybe you can answer this for me.

          Do movies that only show the option to purchase, ever be available for rent?

          And movies that show only rental, ever become available for purchase?

          Or is it... some movies that are purchase only will always and ONLY be available for purchase and never allow you to rent, and some rental only movies will always and ONLY be available for rental and never be available for purchase.

          After-all there are many new releases for example that show you can purchase or rental only, but may or may not ever be available for rent or purchase??
          There is a thing called "Rotation" that the content owners/studio's go though based on distribution channel. After a DVD comes it appears most VOD services cannot rent so it doesn't eat into the profits from DVD sales. After that its anyone's guess. It could go rental or if it goes to HBO or Showtime it could be blacked out while they try to maximize profits from those channels.

          I don't know what VUDU's agreements look like but this seems to be a common pattern for not only VUDU but Movielink and other VOD services.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Rentals

            Originally posted by rstone View Post
            Do movies that only show the option to purchase, ever be available for rent?
            Sometimes yes.

            And movies that show only rental, ever become available for purchase?
            Sometimes yes.

            Or is it... some movies that are purchase only will always and ONLY be available for purchase and never allow you to rent, and some rental only movies will always and ONLY be available for rental and never be available for purchase.
            Possibly.

            After-all there are many new releases for example that show you can purchase or rental only, but may or may not ever be available for rent or purchase??
            Again, possibly.

            I'm sorry to be vague but that is the best answer I can give right now. The bottom line all appears to revolve around what license rights Vudu can get to the content. The studio may not be the only one who has a say in this matter. Some of the content ownership goes beyond the studios and all this has to be negotiated. It's a very complex answer. As I and the other moderators learn more and understand more about this, we will try to further define this issue.

            Some studios like Disney appear to want rentals only. Others like Sony, are dominated by purchase only. At this point there is no straight answer since the studio may or may not own all the content of a particular movie.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Rentals

              Originally posted by NA9D View Post
              I'm sorry to be vague but that is the best answer I can give right now. The bottom line all appears to revolve around what license rights Vudu can get to the content. The studio may not be the only one who has a say in this matter. Some of the content ownership goes beyond the studios and all this has to be negotiated. It's a very complex answer. As I and the other moderators learn more and understand more about this, we will try to further define this issue.

              Some studios like Disney appear to want rentals only. Others like Sony, are dominated by purchase only. At this point there is no straight answer since the studio may or may not own all the content of a particular movie.
              Well thanks for trying to bring some clarification to this issue, even if it is still somewhat ambiguous. Since I have alot of movies in my wishlist, some I am waiting for them to become available to purchase and others I'm waiting for them to be available to rent, but after what you said, I may just be hopelessly waiting for something that may never happen.

              Also I guess I was also wondering because many people on here claim "why purchase movies when one can just rent," but then based on your answer it would seem that the solution of using VUDU as a rental box is alot more complex, then just saying one can rent what they want, so why purchase! For it seems possible that if one would limit themselves to renting only, that it is possible you would also limit yourself to those movies that are or may never become available for rent, ever. Which really makes it hard to determine the best approach to how to use the VUDU box. After-all one may decide to not purchase a new release like American Gangster immediately, based on the premise that it might become available for rent at a later date. Only to discover later that it will never become available for rent.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Rentals

                A good rule of thumb with new releases is that if they will be rentable, it will generally happen a month after release. a movie could go rentable after that but there is no gaurantee.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Rentals

                  Originally posted by rstone View Post
                  Also I guess I was also wondering because many people on here claim "why purchase movies when one can just rent," but then based on your answer it would seem that the solution of using VUDU as a rental box is alot more complex, then just saying one can rent what they want, so why purchase! For it seems possible that if one would limit themselves to renting only, that it is possible you would also limit yourself to those movies that are or may never become available for rent, ever. Which really makes it hard to determine the best approach to how to use the VUDU box.
                  First of all, there is a large segment of people who while not 100% happy with the rental choices are pleased enough and feel the selection is large enough that there are enough movies that they can satisfy their viewing needs through only renting. So it's a perfectly valid argument. Saying "Why purchase when you can rent what you want when you want" is a perfectly valid argument. The key is "what you want" - if the selection of rentable movies is fine for you, there will be plenty of "what you want."


                  Perhaps it does not fit your viewing lifestyle. And that is fine. One thing perhaps that Vudu could do in the future would be to allow you to delete purchases on your own. So then you could purchase a movie and then delete it so it wouldn't take up space. It's not as cost effective as renting but then it is still lower cost for some movies than spending admission fees to a movie theatre.

                  So it really depends on your lifestyle. Unfortunately, not all movies are rent AND purchase right now. If every movie was that way, we'd have no HD content, and a vastly smaller library.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Rentals

                    Originally posted by NA9D View Post
                    A good rule of thumb with new releases is that if they will be rentable, it will generally happen a month after release. a movie could go rentable after that but there is no gaurantee.
                    Jon, a lot of movies now have "Purchase now. Rent on MM/DD" which makes it easier for us to figure out what's going to be rentable and queue them up in the wish list. However, are there may purchase-only titles that don't display "Rent on ..." initially but become rentable later?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Rentals

                      Originally posted by NA9D View Post
                      Unfortunately, not all movies are rent AND purchase right now. If every movie was that way, we'd have no HD content, and a vastly smaller library.
                      Why is that? You have places like Netflix who allow you to rent and purchase everything they own and their library is over 90,000. Not to mention they have a huge HD library. I would think that the larger your library of available movies the more likely your going to find someone that movie appeals to and as a consequence that person is more likely to rent and/or purchase movies from you.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Rentals

                        Jon, a lot of movies now have "Purchase now. Rent on MM/DD" which makes it easier for us to figure out what's going to be rentable and queue them up in the wish list. However, are there may purchase-only titles that don't display "Rent on ..." initially but become rentable later?
                        I don't know. It's possible they'll become rentable. When and if Vudu obtains the license you'll see when the rental will happen. I know nothing more...
                        Last edited by NA9D; 02-20-2008, 08:49 PM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Rentals

                          Originally posted by rstone View Post
                          Why is that? You have places like Netflix who allow you to rent and purchase everything they own and their library is over 90,000. Not to mention they have a huge HD library. I would think that the larger your library of available movies the more likely your going to find someone that movie appeals to and as a consequence that person is more likely to rent and/or purchase movies from you.
                          OK. Let me try to explain it again:

                          1.) Netflix has PHYSICAL media that they rent to you.
                          2.) Vudu has DIGITAL media.

                          The licenses for Physical and Digital media are completely and 100% different. License contracts have to be approved individually among all the content owners for purchase and rental separately for digital. This may sound stupid, but it's the reality of the situation. People make money from all these different steps and the contracts for royalty payments on physical media is different from digital media. The whole writers strike was mainly about getting writers a larger share of the pie from the very sort of business transaction that takes place every time you watch a movie on Vudu.

                          You cannot compare the licensing structures of physical media to digital media. I understand it "should" be all the same. We all "should" live along in peace in this world as well. Sadly, we don't live in "shoulds."

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Rentals

                            Originally posted by rstone View Post
                            Why is that? You have places like Netflix who allow you to rent and purchase everything they own and their library is over 90,000. Not to mention they have a huge HD library. I would think that the larger your library of available movies the more likely your going to find someone that movie appeals to and as a consequence that person is more likely to rent and/or purchase movies from you.
                            Rstone and everyone else,

                            I've learned a little more about the whole issue why some movies are rental only or why some movies don't show up all together, etc. Please understand that some of what I am writing may not be 100% factually accurate due to the fact that I'm still learning about all this. I'm not trying to mislead but instead give you the big picture as I understand it. The general idea of what I am saying is accurate.

                            To lay the blame entirely at the feet of the studio is, as I have learned, not 100% fair. Everything in the movie industry seems to revolve around contracts so that people get paid money for what they work on. This is what the whole writer's strike was about - particularly the VOD/Internet aspects of it.

                            Movies have to have licenses negotiated for purchase. An entirely separate license is negotiated for rental. The terms are different. Movies within the last ten years are relatively easy to deal with as the contracts with the cast and crew for those movies contained language regarding digital distribution of the movies. Movies prior to that time contain no such language. Therefore, in order to get digital distribution rights, the content owners have to approve of it.

                            Who are the content owners? Is i t simply the studios? No. Does a composer or writer own content in a movie? Yes they do. A director or a producer may own content. In all, there may be multiple people who all own pieces of content in a given movie. ALL of them have to agree to the terms of the digital distribution and if not, the movie isn't cleared for release. And it gets more complicated than that. Let's say the writer has died and now it goes to an estate. Well, all the beneficiaries of that estate have to now agree as they are now the owners of the content.

                            So for any given movie, if one content owner doesn't want any digital distribution for whatever reason, no one can get it. If one content owner in a movie agrees to purchase only but another wants rental only, I don't think it can get cleared there either. I really wish it was as easy as Vudu going out and purchasing the physical DVDs and ripping them and then providing them to us. Unfortunately - it isn't.

                            So as you can see, it is a mess. Physical media doesn't have this issue because it's been around for years and years and has a completely different set of licenses.

                            Anyhow, I hope that sheds some light on things. We've tended to "blame" the studios when they may not be the ones at fault. They might have a movie that would be a big hit on the box that they want to release but they can't get the sign-off of the content owners.

                            Now, why newer movies aren't all purchase and all rental, I don't quite know. My understanding is that the studios control the digital distribution rights and certain studios may want to promote certain movies in certain ways (like Disney - they appear to want to only allow rentals). There may be some distribution restrictions in some movie contracts as well but I am simply speculating now.

                            Jon

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Rentals

                              Thanks for your insight.

                              It makes the Beatles fight between themselves over music ownership look like a family squabble.

                              Comment

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