Anything on Subtitles?

[marvod]

Looks like the cool aid is still flowing here.

Any sign of subtitles yet?

[Rusdude]

Re: IR Dongle now available at vudu.com!

Looks like the cool aid is still flowing here.

Any sign of subtitles yet?

Nothing so far. I hope Vudu finds a better way than re-encoding all the content though since that would be a huge undertaking.

[NA9D]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

This was moved to its own thread. It has nothing to do with IR control.

And no - no subtitles. It's going to be a while before this item is implemented.

[Nded]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

What we're really talking about here is Closed Captions, not Subtitles. I don't think this is going to happen for a long time - HDMI set's don't support it. There is not yet an industry accepted standard for putting CC in H.264 files. I know there has been some talk of this, and some valid suggestions, it's just not to the point where we can even say it's going to happen on the Vudu. All we can say is that we hope this happens for the folks who want it, but they should not take this hope to be a firm committment.

[NA9D]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

What we're really talking about here is Closed Captions, not Subtitles.

Let's just call it captioning like you'd get on a DVD if you chose to view it. I don't think there's going to be closed captioning in the traditional sense. If and when this is supported, it is going to most likely be a DVD style captioning and not captioning that the TV will decode.

Also, if this gets implemented, you can be sure it will be announced here on the forums. It's not in 1.3 and as I'm not privy to the development or feature schedule in advance of when I start testing something, I can't say what release this is planned for or even if it is planned.

[Rusdude]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

What we're really talking about here is Closed Captions, not Subtitles. I don't think this is going to happen for a long time - HDMI set's don't support it. There is not yet an industry accepted standard for putting CC in H.264 files. I know there has been some talk of this, and some valid suggestions, it's just not to the point where we can even say it's going to happen on the Vudu. All we can say is that we hope this happens for the folks who want it, but they should not take this hope to be a firm committment.

If we follow a convention that CC is what TV channels display and Subtitles is what DVD displays, then OP was correct.

I've read here that Apple has subtitles on some content (not sure about the new rental stuff). Any idea how they managed to get it working?

P.S. FWIW, the standard for subtitles in H.264 content is to use MKV (Matroska) container. It can contain multiple audio & subtitle streams.

[Nded]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

Some Vudu titles (foreign films) do have English subtitles. With regards to the Apple stuff, I have no idea if they are implemented the same as Vudu, where the text flows through the whole film, or if they can be "toggled" on/off by the viewer.

[Nded]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

To go one step further (this is a repeat of an earlier thread), the Video content from the studios does not natively come with subtitle content, the studios produce video and audio, not text. When they send a movie to the theaters it doesn't contain subtitles (not counting foreign films remastered for US viewing with subtitles). The addition of subtitle text to a DVD's is a post production effort, that I believe is paid for by the DVD companies, not the studios. Vudu does not get the DVD content, they get the original Audio/Video content from the studios.

It is not in the DVD producers interest to provide this additional content to Vudu - they are the competition.

It is not in the Vudu companies current business model to add a new division to enter the text to fill this "gap" in the product. How much do you realistically think revenues will increase with the addition of such? Enough to cover the cost of the employees needed to make it happen?

[NA9D]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

Some Vudu titles (foreign films) do have English subtitles. With regards to the Apple stuff, I have no idea if they are implemented the same as Vudu, where the text flows through the whole film, or if they can be "toggled" on/off by the viewer.

Yes, the Apple Content can be toggled on and off. But not all content carries it. It is only select content where I believe they have received the "rights" to it.

Also, I believe Apple's implementation is proprietary.

[NA9D]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

Let me just make sure that I am not mistaken in my first response to the original post. I say "it's going to be a while before this is implemented." That "while" is possibly a very long while. It may never happen. This subject has been debated over and over again and people like Marvod are upset that the Vudu doesn't have it. We are sorry that this has upset them and we are sorry we can't meet everyone's particular requirements.

Don't be upset if you want captioning. The Vudu box is not for you at this point and I would recommend spending your resources elsewhere. This feature may never be available. If it does become available, it will certainly be announced with much ado.

Personally, I think that captioning is a good thing to have but I'd rather see things like expanded TV content, TV show rentals, external storage, media center features, etc. first.

There are limitations to this product. Lack of captioning is one of them. You need to make a decision then as what is best for you and your needs.

[RonV]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

If we follow a convention that CC is what TV channels display and Subtitles is what DVD displays, then OP was correct.

I've read here that Apple has subtitles on some content (not sure about the new rental stuff). Any idea how they managed to get it working?

P.S. FWIW, the standard for subtitles in H.264 content is to use MKV (Matroska) container. It can contain multiple audio & subtitle streams.

I have been following the Matroska (MKV) container for a while. The issue is that even though it has support and its open source it still not adopted by the H.264 standards body. It was submitted as a RFC in 2004 but hasn't gone to far in committee AFAIK.

You know whats interesting the the number of bootlegged English films that have been re-coded contain non-English subtitles using this container. A friend of mine brought back some bootlegs from India and the movies were all in English with subtitles in Farsi.

[marvod]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

Let me just make sure that I am not mistaken in my first response to the original post. I say "it's going to be a while before this is implemented." That "while" is possibly a very long while. It may never happen. This subject has been debated over and over again and people like Marvod are upset that the Vudu doesn't have it. We are sorry that this has upset them and we are sorry we can't meet everyone's particular requirements.

Don't be upset if you want captioning. The Vudu box is not for you at this point and I would recommend spending your resources elsewhere. This feature may never be available. If it does become available, it will certainly be announced with much ado.

Personally, I think that captioning is a good thing to have but I'd rather see things like expanded TV content, TV show rentals, external storage, media center features, etc. first.

There are limitations to this product. Lack of captioning is one of them. You need to make a decision then as what is best for you and your needs.

First I am not upset just disappointed. How can Vudu possibly think this thing can become mainstream without CC or Subtitles or whatever we are calling them this week. I read all the lip service, "its not us, its not apple, its the studios or content provider". While this may be true, as long as DVD's of any format have something that Vudu and Apple do not, these will be niche products. I personal know of 3 family's that would love to have a Vudu but will not because of no captioning. There is a reason that the FCC mandated CC on TVs years ago and why its been debated over and over again.

Ok down off my soapbox on that subject. BTW I promise I will never ever bring it up again.

Also, why do I keep lurking here? I haven't totally given up on the idea of buying a Vudu again. I personally don't need CC but 2 folks in my house do. The price drop and HD arriving do make it more compelling. But I must say I do have a problem with a $40 IR dongle. I'm crazy i know. I bought Bluray and HD-DVD players and I'm whining over a $40 IR dongle. Go figure.

[NA9D]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

First I am not upset just disappointed. How can Vudu possibly think this thing can become mainstream without CC or Subtitles or whatever we are calling them this week. I read all the lip service, "its not us, its not apple, its the studios or content provider". While this may be true, as long as DVD's of any format have something that Vudu and Apple do not, these will be niche products.

Physical DVDs have a lot that Vudu and ATV don't. They are portable, they are something you physically can hold in your hand. They have higher quality video in the case of BluRay. They have subtitle options for not just English but many times different languages or audio tracks in different languages. They are available for rental the same day that they are released. They have extra content.

Yes, Vudu and ATV don't have a lot of the positives of physical media. If you need any of those things then, yes, you did the right thing in returning your Vudu. The Vudu, anyhow, isn't meant to replace all your other forms of video entertainment.

But physical media also offers: They have to be obtained by driving some place in your car to get them or waiting for them to arrive in the mail so your entertainment needs are not instantaneously met. They take up shelf space. They can scratch or get smudged or destroyed by a toddler.

Electronic delivery has no such issues and even though the selection may at times be more limited or the audio not in DD5.1, the immediacy of delivery is the big selling point for me. We generally watch a movie after the kids are in bed. We first sit down to see if there is anything on TV. If there isn't then it's a check to see what movies we want to watch. With Vudu, it's look at the list, find something we want and we watch it. If we still went to Blockbuster, it would take one of us leaving home, driving to the store, looking for a movie that both of us would like. Finding one but realizing it's all checked out. Finding another movie that we both would like. Waiting in line. Driving home. But now 30 to 45 minutes has passed and it's too late to start a movie because by the time its finished it will be too late. Or if you have Netflix (never have, never will), you realize that the 3 movies you have are not what you are in the mood for and you have to then run to Blockbuster anyhow....We used to have a service here where you'd order DVDs online and they'd deliver them to your house w/in an hour. That was cool but they went out of business...

To me, that paragraph above is why I have a Vudu. When the next installment of something like Chronicles of Narnia comes out on DVD and on Vudu, I'll still probably purchase the DVD because I want those extras...But when I want to rent a movie or buy something offbeat or for my kids, the Vudu is great...

[redwein]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

While this may be true, as long as DVD's of any format have something that Vudu and Apple do not, these will be niche products. I personal know of 3 family's that would love to have a Vudu but will not because of no captioning. There is a reason that the FCC mandated CC on TVs years ago and why its been debated over and over again.

Perhaps but the "niche" may be the majority of the potential customer base. I believe the reason the FCC mandated it was the same reason they mandate handicapped parking spaces. It isn't because the majority of people want it. In fact, it's the opposite. The majority of people don't care and, if left to their own devices, companies wouldn't provide it since it costs money and most people don't use it.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not putting anyone down or arguing against the feature. I'm must saying that I think calling it a "niche" product because of it makes it seem like most people want it and will use it. I just disagree with that.

[marvod]

Re: Anything on Subtitles?

Perhaps but the "niche" may be the majority of the potential customer base. I believe the reason the FCC mandated it was the same reason they mandate handicapped parking spaces. It isn't because the majority of people want it. In fact, it's the opposite. The majority of people don't care and, if left to their own devices, companies wouldn't provide it since it costs money and most people don't use it.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not putting anyone down or arguing against the feature. I'm must saying that I think calling it a "niche" product because of it makes it seem like most people want it and will use it. I just disagree with that.

So do you think 10 years ago anyone wanted HDTV other then a small set of people. Most likely about the same size group that wants and needs CC now? The CE folks fought tooth and nail against it for years. Forced by the government kicking and screaming until an accountant told them they could make money.

I am not about government stepping in to push or mandate anything. I hate big government. But sometimes it is needed.

I cant tell you how many posts I have read with folks screaming about no 5.1 or DD or DTS. People were rabid waiting for HD content on the Vudu. Is it to much to ask for the studios to provide CC as well?

I know its not Vudu's fault but since the have the studio contacts and I don't I just thought they could pass on the info.