Discussion of Thomas Friedman

[HeadHodge]

If it weren't for people who broke with the "consensus" of the day, we'd still believe the earth was flat.

It isn't????

[NA9D]

Re: The Living Sea - yours for free!

And you're going to believe something written by Thomas Friedman? Oh my...

[HeadHodge]

Re: The Living Sea - yours for free!

And you're going to believe something written by Thomas Friedman? Oh my...

Are you calling him consensusistic ??

Anyways, I've never read any of his works. I just really dig the picture. I have a large framed print of it in my Sacramento house.

Didn't know, until today, it was the original artwork on the 1st edition of his book.

Regards

[NA9D]

Re: The Living Sea - yours for free!

Are you calling him consensusistic ??

Anyways, I've never read any of his works. I just really dig the picture. I have a large framed print of it in my Sacramento house.

Didn't know, until today, it was the original artwork on the 1st edition of his book.

Regards

Ah the picture is great. I've not read much of Mr. Friedman's work. But he is a communist, er, columnist for the New York Times. Need I say more?

From what I know of you Hodge, your politics are diametrically opposed to his!

[NA9D]

Re: Discussion of Thomas Friedman

Note: I moved this into its own thread so as to keep the "Living Sea" thread more on topic as this could spiral out!

Anything goes in this one!

[MaxH]

Re: Discussion of Thomas Friedman

I'm still trying to work my way through "The World is Flat". Whatever you think of his politics or those of his publisher, he did a really interesting special on outsourcing based on that book...I want to say it was a Frontline piece, but I can't remember offhand. But it's not light reading, that's for sure.

[HeadHodge]

Re: Discussion of Thomas Friedman

Note: I moved this into its own thread so as to keep the "Living Sea" thread more on topic as this could spiral out!

Anything goes in this one!

It doesn't bother me that you moved it. Much better than nuking it.

But I thought I was staying on topic with my post.

I put a lot of thought into posting this picture because with one picture it addressed multiple issues posted on the thread.

I was using it to demonstrate that some of the finest pure green vessels made by mankind have already been created.

But I was also trying to show what trouble we could into if we went to a "totally" green enivironment.

If the ships in the picture (for example) had as a backup a diesel guzzling twin prop 350 Merc, they would have easily been able to get out their predicament.

So I was agreeing with both redwein that the Vudu box was not totally green but also agreeing that it was better than thinking about taking NA9Ds suggestion that it could be run off of energy from cow farts.

Instead I was simply suggesting that a Hybrid approach might really be the best mediated solution of both extremes.

Then I was also addressing MaxH and Brains discussion of global warming. Although it's the "popular" belief that global warming is caused by humankind and therefore we will cause the ultimate destruction of the earth. It may not truly be the case. I was showing this by using NA9D's example of consensus by showing that today the consesus is that the earth is not flat, but setting aside that supposed fact of modern thought, the reality is that indeed it really could be flat.

That is I why I like this picture so much, it has a lot to tell.

Geez, doesn't anyone but me see this?? Or do I need to draw a picture to explain the picture??

The fact that Friedman is even mentioned is purely coincidental. I just couldn't find a picture of the original artwork.

Now I know why Hemmingway committed suicide after reading the Cliff Notes interpretation of his book "Grapes of Wrath"!!

[NA9D]

Re: Discussion of Thomas Friedman

I agree your picture was sorta on topic in the thread. I debated where to split it. I agree 100% with what you are saying as well. When I was a kid, the fear was that the earth was cooling. Then it got hot for a few summers and suddenly the earth was warming. Now, some scientists are leaning the other way.

Look, the way I see it is that they can't reliably predict the weather 24 hours from now. It seems like they still get it wrong 50% of the time. So how the Sam Hill does anyone think that those same models are going to predict any sort of accurate weather in 50 let alone 100 years!

As for energy/oil use, I think the issue that's more bothersome is the politics of energy and the reason why alternate fuels have been slow to develop. Think about what the Middle East would be like w/o oil. There's virtually nothing else in Saudi Arabia. How would an economy and a population be supported or sustained that would not resort to violence or other extremes? So oil plays a key part in our world and in the stability of the world, but it also adds a large element of instability as can be seen by the likes of Hugo Chavez and Vladimir Putin who's pockets are now bulging because of the speculation that has gone on in the oil future's market. And don't get me started on oil futures...My sincere belief is that the $3.99 I paid at the pump today has little to do with true supply and demand but is rather based on the speculation of some analysts and their guesses about what "might" happen to the oil supply tomorrow.

Anyhow, now we are WAY off topic of the original. Perhaps that's why I split it off as I knew we could go into these great tangents!

[HeadHodge]

Re: Discussion of Thomas Friedman

I agree your picture was sorta on topic in the thread. I debated where to split it.

I think you did it just right!!

Best Regards

[HeadHodge]

Re: Discussion of Thomas Friedman

As for energy/oil use, I think the issue that's more bothersome is the politics of energy and the reason why alternate fuels have been slow to develop. Think about what the Middle East would be like w/o oil. There's virtually nothing else in Saudi Arabia. How would an economy and a population be supported or sustained that would not resort to violence or other extremes? So oil plays a key part in our world and in the stability of the world, but it also adds a large element of instability as can be seen by the likes of Hugo Chavez and Vladimir Putin who's pockets are now bulging because of the speculation that has gone on in the oil future's market.

I think given where we're at today, we are paying for both sides of the Middle East battles. On one hand, we pay for our military to battle the evil Islamic Extremists and on other we pay the Islamic Extremists to battle against us, by buying their oil for out polluting energy. It really sickens me.

On the other hand I personally know several large land owners in Oregon who have converted their crops over to growing corn because of the new popularity of Ethanol as an alternative fuel.

The're making good money from the crop change, but now there's less supply of the product they originally were growing, which raises its price. And my Uncle owns a farm in Ohio raising cattle, who now is almost out of business because of the higher grain costs.

So even though the greenies may genuinely have good intent, there always seems to be unexpected consequences of every action, whether the intent was meant for good or not. If I ever wrote a book, that's what I would call it: "Unexpected Consequences".

It's a very complicated situation and it seems that you're damned if do and damed if you don't.

I don't understand in-depth, but I'm personally hoping for some sort Hydrogen and Solar solution, where there is an abundence of raw material from the oceans and in lots of places for solar energy to provide the electrolyisis needed to convert water to hydrogen.

But then who knows, it might end up killing all the fish in the sea and we'll die of starvation with plenty of free energy some day. The VUDU will work 24x7 for free, but no one will be there to watch it.

(I'm just trying to keep to the theme of Greenie day or Earth day or whatever it's called)

Happy Greenie Day!!! Yea!!!

[HeadHodge]

Re: Discussion of Thomas Friedman

Oh as an aside from my previous post.

I think it's either Toyota or Honda that is introducing the first production Hydrogen car this year.

I think the model is called the Hindenburg.

[NA9D]

Re: Discussion of Thomas Friedman

I think it's either Toyota or Honda that is introducing the first production Hydrogen car this year.

I think the model is called the Hindenburg.

That's why I cringe when people talk about hydrogen fuel cells. OK, we see what happened to the Hindenburg. And you want to put this stuff into two vehicles that might collide and hit each other at 60 MPH? You'd have to somehow prove to me that one of the most volatile elements around would be as safe as or safer than gasoline...

[RonV]

Re: The Living Sea - yours for free!

Ah the picture is great. I've not read much of Mr. Friedman's work. But he is a communist, er, columnist for the New York Times. Need I say more?

From what I know of you Hodge, your politics are diametrically opposed to his!

My daugher was forced to read Friedmans's works in Political Science class. Her instructor was big on the "Exploited Worker Class" examples. His theories are all bunk. He assumes you have no way of working out of low paying jobs though other means like education and vocational work.

[HeadHodge]

Re: The Living Sea - yours for free!

My daugher was forced to read Friedmans's works in Political Science class. Her instructor was big on the "Exploited Worker Class" examples. His theories are all bunk. He assumes you have no way of working out of low paying jobs though other means like education and vocational work.

I wonder if Kinky Friedman is the sane brother of the family ??

[HeadHodge]

Re: Discussion of Thomas Friedman

That's why I cringe when people talk about hydrogen fuel cells. OK, we see what happened to the Hindenburg. And you want to put this stuff into two vehicles that might collide and hit each other at 60 MPH? You'd have to somehow prove to me that one of the most volatile elements around would be as safe as or safer than gasoline...

I had thought about that a lot too. And I think from my research to date, it appears they are working hard on finding a way to make the Hydrogen somewhat inert until it's used for the combustion process in the engine. Kinda like expoxy where you have two inert component sticks that become activated only after the two are combined together.

But I don't know what sort of progress is being made in that area.

The other thought I had, is that assuming the Hydrogen could made fairly cheaply via solar electrolysis, then I could see the resulting Hydrogen being used as fuel at large generating plants (similar to a nuclear power plant). Then use the resulting electricity to power electric cars. They are getting better and better making electric cars every year.

Using solar to create Hydrogen probably isn't as efficient to create electricity over just converting solar directly to electricity. But the beauty in it is that the Hydrogen acts as an energy storage device to be used on demand as needed later. Converting solar directly to electric would require tons of batteries to store it, if you couldn't immediately use it as it's generated.

I hated chemistry in school, but now I find it pretty fascinating stuff, and wished I would have paid more attention to it.