Pricing and upgrading of movies from HDX to UHD..

[SinGA]

I'd rather pay more money than give one cent to apple !

[jthomp27]

please!

[RogerJ]

My Brother has been going around and around with support over Avatar: The Last Airbender Complete Series. He just wants a refund for his SD purchase so he can get it in HD. Or, just wants to pay the difference. This is crazy!

[crisbarrows]

VUDU is a better deal than iTunes, even with the Apple free HD-UHD upgrade.

If you have a large iTunes investment then the free upgrades would seem like a good deal, but.....

1. Most UHD content being offered right now on older content is 2K to 4K upscaled - i.e. fake UHD. You won't see any meaningful benefit to 4K, although the HDR/Dolby Vision (DV) treatment can offer some benefit sometimes, but in my tests there is no guarantee, I have seen a worse result from added HDR effects on some material. There are a few gems that have true 4K source and are remastered well - but check the various TRUE/FAKE lists that are currently circulating to check.

2. Apple does not have contracts with Disney and Fox, and in discussion with a senior support tech, it doesn't look like that will change anytime soon, they have tried. So all the Marvel, Star Wars, etc, will not see UHD on iTunes for the foreseeable future. Unlike VUDU which has a contract. Looks like some bad blood between Disney and Apple. That alone was a deal breaker for me.

3. VUDU runs on nearly every device and smart TV, but for iTunes your choice is severely limited.

While it would be nice too see some older content as true UHD, it would make more sense to plan for future purchases where it is expected most new content will be true 4K and HDR/DV. And there the points above become even more powerful. I suspect that eventually UHD will become the norm as it did for HD. If you don't have any iTunes content and have a VUDU commitment then it wouldn't make much sense to switch to iTunes.

VUDU versus iTunes prices - These are dynamically changing and competitive, most seem the same on both platforms. There is bound to be exceptions, but likely not for long if they continue to compete.

MOVIES-ANYWHERE (MA). This is interesting. Many studios now support MA, as does VUDU and Apple as retailers. I had zero iTunes content and no Apple products, but I purchased an Apple TV 4K (since returned) to see whether my 125 MA eligible movies would port to iTunes. They did, but only those movies that I had in UHD showed as UHD in iTunes, all the others remained as HD in iTunes, with no automatic upgrade to UHD. I was secretly hoping that all my HD content would magically appear as UHD in iTunes - haha - fool. So how would you get the upgrades in iTunes? In VUDU it is easy, if you have the HDX version only and want to upgrade you are given the UHD purchase price, but with iTunes there is no such option. But.....

1. If there is a UHD version available in iTunes then you can gift yourself the movie, pay full price, and it will upgrade to UHD, BUT it will not update the MoviesAnywhere database to reflect the UHD status, so you can only view the UHD version thru a compatible iTunes player.

2. I raised this issue with Apple support whose response seemed at first - huh! what?. I had 4 sessions with Apple support and no one really understood the issue. I did this with 2 movies and Apple refunded me the money I spent, and funnily enough both movies remained as UHD in iTunes. I'd guess Apple doesn't have a way to DOWNGRADE a movie once it has achieved UHD status. Haha. Doubt you can do this as a viable tactic to get free iTunes upgrades - I would suspect repeated requests for refunds would get flagged - but then this was my first experience with an Apple product, their systems, and their tech support - it didn't seem very impressive, even though everyone was very courteous.

3. MoviesAnywhere tech support also confirmed that Apple does not work well with MA and gifting. Conversely I purchased an HDX to UHD upgrade in VUDU and that did update the MA database correctly and that made the iTunes HD version also upgrade to UHD. I then had my VUDU purchase refunded and that removed my VUDU UHD option for that movie, but left the iTunes version as UHD. All very crazy. VUDU have their act together - Apple is way behind.

APPLE 4K TV -

1. A disastrous remote control, but my remote for my LG C7 OLED TV worked just fine instead.

2. Very pretty UI, but with far fewer movie list filter options. But the movie player UI was significantly inferior to VUDU - bare basic options.

3. Excellent screen saver (well worth the $200 product cost, that's a joke BTW).

4. VUDU and Amazon apps are kinda supported, I guess so they can tick the boxes, but that is very deceitful, these are bare bones stripped down PLAYER only apps, you cannot rent or purchase VUDU or Amazon content - guess Apple doesn't want to assist their competitors too much.

5. No lossless audio passthrough, even with the upcoming Dolby Atmos support that will be lossy. Not such a big deal since all streaming services are unlikely to provide lossless audio for the foreseeable future. But for those of us who have significant lossless content and a Dolby Atmos system then this product is a bad choice.

5. Since I had no iTunes content, music or podcasts, and only movies linked through my MoviesAnywhere account, it felt like a very expensive overkill for my needs, especially as I had achieved no significant gain from linking my MA account - apart from several older FAKE UHD movies that are only HDX in VUDU (no UHD option available).

CONCLUSION.

1. VUDU has a good UI, supported on a huge selection of devices, has some good critical studio contracts, and great quality streaming service with HDR, DV, and Atmos support.

2. Cheap or free upgrades from currently owned HDX to UHD would be ideal, but apart from that the platform offers a good choice for future purchases which would be needed on iTunes anyway.

3. Pricing strategies between VUDU and iTunes will likely be constantly changing as they compete, but even if VUDU does remain slightly more expensive for some movies I feel their platform simply offers a better overall experience with greater flexibility of devices.

Cris

[mike1sc]

Cris, I agree with pretty much everything you said relating to the advantages of Vudu. As much as I have tried to find fault with Vudu, at the end of the day I find I am always using Vudu to watch most of my UHD library. There is one thing I wish Vudu would change and I get tired of being penalized for redeeming my UHD digital code a day or two before Vudu is ready, and getting stuck with the HDX copy, even though I purchased the UHD movie. Vudu needs to put something in place to resolve this issue that continues.

[Savio]

The current Mix and Match UHD sale is a good way to start - basically you get UHD movies for $5/each - that's a good upgrade price in my opinion - wish they had a larger selection though!

[Alan Gordon]

1. Most UHD content being offered right now on older content is 2K to 4K upscaled - i.e. fake UHD. You won't see any meaningful benefit to 4K, although the HDR/Dolby Vision (DV) treatment can offer some benefit sometimes, but in my tests there is no guarantee, I have seen a worse result from added HDR effects on some material. There are a few gems that have true 4K source and are remastered well - but check the various TRUE/FAKE lists that are currently circulating to check.

For those who are new to UHD/HDR, please take the various TRUE/FAKE lists that are out there with a grain of salt, because some of the best looking UHD/HDR titles are 2K to 4K upscales, and one can miss out on some really GREAT 4K/HDR content if one uses these lists as a measuring stick for what's worthy to purchase in UHD.

2. Apple does not have contracts with Disney and Fox, and in discussion with a senior support tech, it doesn't look like that will change anytime soon, they have tried. So all the Marvel, Star Wars, etc, will not see UHD on iTunes for the foreseeable future. Unlike VUDU which has a contract. Looks like some bad blood between Disney and Apple. That alone was a deal breaker for me.

Apple has a contract with Fox, and has since the beginning of Apple offering 4K titles, and apparently will (at least) until the Fox/Disney deal is completed, if not later due to contractual issues. Apple currently has more FOX UHD titles than FandangoNow, for much cheaper prices ($4.99+), and is currently upgrading FOX titles with Atmos as well.

While it would be nice too see some older content as true UHD, it would make more sense to plan for future purchases where it is expected most new content will be true 4K and HDR/DV.

The majority of TRUE UHD is OLDER content. A lot of newer content are upscales, though again, some upscales have better PQ than the TRUE UHD titles.

VUDU versus iTunes prices - These are dynamically changing and competitive, most seem the same on both platforms. There is bound to be exceptions, but likely not for long if they continue to compete.

Aside from Lionsgate titles, it would be nice to see VUDU match some of Apple's $4.99 UHD pricing for other studios.

VUDU have their act together - Apple is way behind.

Both services have their pluses and minuses. I'd like to see Apple incorporate some of the things VUDU does (like the ability to upgrade that you mentioned), but there are things VUDU can learn from Apple's way of doing things as well. VUDU could also be better about adding 4K titles, as Apple has a much bigger UHD library.

4. VUDU and Amazon apps are kinda supported, I guess so they can tick the boxes, but that is very deceitful, these are bare bones stripped down PLAYER only apps, you cannot rent or purchase VUDU or Amazon content - guess Apple doesn't want to assist their competitors too much.

The inability to purchase or rent from VUDU and Amazon were choices made by VUDU and Amazon, as neither wants to pay Apple a cut of the purchase.


I'm of the belief that no service is perfect, and there's things that one service is better at than another, which is why I use both services, and will continue to do so. Everyone should make the choice that is best for them, and I respect your preference for VUDU.

[zelts3]

I really wish we could do something about the digital upgrade - or at least be told it is in the discussion. A lot of us Vudu Dinosaurs have already committed a large chunk of time and investment into Vudu, but the service is pretty comparable to how it was a few years ago. Other providers have made larger adjustments and have eaten into a once dominated Vudu Market Share.

I also wonder why if Vudu is owned and connected to WalMart - why are they rolling out Sam Goody Prices?? Many items are substantially cheaper at other providers for the exact same product. Hopefully Vudu dives more into the competition.

[Asrugan]

I 100% support this I would gladly pay a modest fee to upgrade either a portion or all of my collection to 4K (over 500 movies!)

[toondog]

I would also like to see an upgrade path but with itunes it is only a free upgrade if you use there service. Its not like they add those free upgrades to your Movies Anywhere account. I would rather have ownership of the movies I purchased.

[mrewster]

I wonder if it's been so slow because customers, by and large, have been really slow to embrace 4K as a format.

This is a chicken or the egg situation. 4K would be adopted more quickly if people could afford to upgrade. You have to really dig deep to find a TV these days that isn't UHD, but to be honest the overwhelming majority of media sales is still DVD.

Lots of people have 4K sets, but they're still watching 480p media on it. The reason? Blu rays are expensive. They'd rather cop a 3-month-old DVD out of the $5 bargain bin. These people either aren't aware of the difference in quality, or don't care, and aren't willing to buy even a Bluray player. In fact, THESE people have no idea that you can stream a movie from Vudu or any other digital provider, let alone worry about some "upgrade" cost to view in 4K.

As long as the majority of the market is still physical, and still SD...digital HD & especially 4K will continue to move slowly.

[seezar]

I would also like to see an upgrade path but with itunes it is only a free upgrade if you use there service. Its not like they add those free upgrades to your Movies Anywhere account. I would rather have ownership of the movies I purchased.

With iTunes, that is only half true. If a title is upgraded from hd to uhd after you purchased or redeemed a digital copy it won?t upgrade in your movies anywhere account. However if you purchase/redeem on iTunes when they have 4K available it will go into Movies Anywhere as uhd.

[quackman]

With iTunes, that is only half true. If a title is upgraded from hd to uhd after you purchased or redeemed a digital copy it won?t upgrade in your movies anywhere account. However if you purchase/redeem on iTunes when they have 4K available it will go into Movies Anywhere as uhd.

Yes, it frustrates me a lot that it won't upgrade it to UHD in MA. There are so many roadblocks for upgrading our movies, which is ridiculous!

[quackman]

If Vudu would hurry up and add the over 400 movies available in UHD elsewhere, we would at least have the option to upgrade them. It would be a full price upgrade option, which isn't good, but better than nothing!

[Wasteland]

Vudu, get with the times and offer a discount when upgrading from HDX to UHD. You know you can do it. This is why I would rather spend money on iTunes to get better deals, so when a title is added here in UHD, I already have it... from a cheaper source!