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CFF at uvdemystified

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    #16
    Re: CFF at uvdemystified

    Originally posted by BlakkMajik3000 View Post
    ...

    Given the option, I would rather download and watch off-line, than constantly worry if I'm going to hit my bandwidth cap for the month because I'm watching more movies than usual.

    ...
    Doesn't downloading the movie also count towards the bandwidth cap anyway?

    Comment

      #17
      Re: CFF at uvdemystified

      Yes, it would, but you only have to download the file once, and you can copy it to and from multiple devices. I'm not convinced that downloads are a niche market either. Sony said last March that almost half of UltraViolet viewings were downloads and half were streams.

      Comment

        #18
        Re: CFF at uvdemystified

        Originally posted by Walter-S_North_Carolina View Post
        exactly my point. DLNA is a nitch app the PS4 rollout felt little market need to respond to. Instead, day one there were NetFlix, Amazon, and Vudu apps ready to go in anticipation of the streaming requirements of the market.

        It is just a case where a CE company confirmed that the market has moved away from DLNA to streaming, making the CFF launch only of interest to a small market segment. At one time, it was the primary way to view digital media in a home.

        Now, it has fallen to niche status. Overly vocal or not.
        The presence of the streaming apps was, no doubt, the work of the streaming companies, not Sony. Sony's small effort to get development software/hardware into the hands of app developers has nothing to do with their large oversight in omitting many small things that have become commonplace on present-gen consoles including DLNA and superb Bluray/DVD playback.

        @lujan
        Yes, the downloads will go against bandwihth caps, but they can be performed once, on a home ISP (~$50 for 250GB cap) vs streaming an item on a mobile ISP (over $10 per GB) or mutiple times on the home net (think "kids' favorite movie/show" that gets played once a day on whatever device is available). That ability makes little to no difference if you don't rewatch your movies.

        Different strokes for different folks.

        Comment

          #19
          Re: CFF at uvdemystified

          Originally posted by Speedaddict81 View Post
          The presence of the streaming apps was, no doubt, the work of the streaming companies, not Sony. Sony's small effort to get development software/hardware into the hands of app developers has nothing to do with their large oversight in omitting many small things that have become commonplace on present-gen consoles including DLNA and superb Bluray/DVD playback.
          Well, perhaps I am wrong, but I do not think so.

          I think that in home client server setups for media playback are becoming passe. I am sure I heard Jim Taylor say the same during an interview. After all, 100% of NetFlix users stream 100% of their media. Streaming has become commonplace and ubiquitous to such a level as negating the need to download for playback except in a few niche customer markets.

          ...also, what you call an oversight I think is naive interpretation of corporate actions. Sony Corp is a CE company based in Japan. Opps is not a word they are familiar with. The absence of DLNA was a deliberate decision with business goals in mind. To consider it an Opps is just not reality.

          Comment

            #20
            Re: CFF at uvdemystified

            The Streaming vs. Download battle won't be settled here. We'll need to wait to see how it plays out in the market.

            I do want to add folks that travel to areas with limited bandwidth can't stream. Plus consider a household with 5-6 devices all streaming. Even a hefty Internet connection will be strained. Kid movies in particular make a good case for downloads.

            Yes all that streaming does count toward your ISP cap. I'm sure all of us are in the top 1% that uses a lot of bandwidth.

            Comment

              #21
              Re: CFF at uvdemystified

              Originally posted by Walter-S_North_Carolina View Post
              exactly my point. DLNA is a nitch app the PS4 rollout felt little market need to respond to. Instead, day one there were NetFlix, Amazon, and Vudu apps ready to go in anticipation of the streaming requirements of the market.

              It is just a case where a CE company confirmed that the market has moved away from DLNA to streaming, making the CFF launch only of interest to a small market segment. At one time, it was the primary way to view digital media in a home.

              Now, it has fallen to niche status. Overly vocal or not.
              <pedant>
              DLNA is not a "nitch [sic] app", it is a protocol or standard, somewhat analogous to TCP/IP. As someone who is in IT, I thought you would appreciate the difference. It provides a framework for different devices to communicate what files are available to them, and to make them available to other devices. Because of that, I think it's the best thing to happen to home theater, period, in that it basically created an open platform where there was none. Even if it fails, it has pushed device manufacturers to implement their own "home media server" options so that now most devices can find photos and video that is available to them on the network.
              </pedant>

              Comment

                #22
                Re: CFF at uvdemystified

                Originally posted by MaxH View Post
                <pedant>
                DLNA is not a "nitch [sic] app", it is a protocol or standard, somewhat analogous to TCP/IP. As someone who is in IT, I thought you would appreciate the difference. It provides a framework for different devices to communicate what files are available to them, and to make them available to other devices. Because of that, I think it's the best thing to happen to home theater, period, in that it basically created an open platform where there was none. Even if it fails, it has pushed device manufacturers to implement their own "home media server" options so that now most devices can find photos and video that is available to them on the network.
                </pedant>
                true. A protocol stack for playback of media files via a client server setup. I do not knock it's framework. I think it is a noble effort.

                Given two playback methods of client server pulling local files or streaming from cloud providers, I think everyone will agree that the non-technical working single mother with three children who wants a way for her and her kids to watch some movies will find the streaming model more conducive to her lifestyle.

                Given the two methods, I too prefer the streaming. I think I am in the majority too. Maybe not among my technical colleagues, but looking at the market as a whole I am sure the adoption of streaming is mostly driven by the ease of use vs. having to administer a client server setup.

                Comment

                  #23
                  Re: CFF at uvdemystified

                  Why do you keep ignoring the point that Sony said half of it's UltraViolet users were using downloads as opposed to streams?

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Re: CFF at uvdemystified

                    Originally posted by echopulse View Post
                    Why do you keep ignoring the point that Sony said half of it's UltraViolet users were using downloads as opposed to streams?

                    my apologies. Honest oversight. Post the link and I will take a look.

                    Comment

                      #25
                      Re: CFF at uvdemystified

                      He talked about it during the UltraViolet Webinar that took place last year. I suggest you watch the whole thing if you didn't catch it earlier.

                      http://www.homemediamagazine.com/new...-webinar-video

                      Comment

                        #26
                        Re: CFF at uvdemystified

                        Thx. Listened to it.

                        On the forum were:
                        1. Mark Teitell - DECE, General Manager
                        2. Richard Marty - Sony Pictures, VP Emerging Platform Development & Marketing

                        The download watching Mr. Marty refers to is associated with mobility instead of downloading to watch via DLNA in-home.

                        The specific quote I believe you are referring to is;

                        "One of the things we are seeing, and this is coming from the Sony Pictures redemptions that we are seeing, the downloading activity is actually outpacing the streaming activity."

                        If this is the quote you are referring to, I hope you understand that this is activity associated with the Sony Pictures web site. Not UV as a whole. I am comfortable in saying the numbers of Vudu users who download to watch in-home is dramatically different from the stream vs. download on the Sony Pictures site. Personally, I have never streamed a movie from the Sony Pictures site and can think of no reason why I ever would want to.

                        This next quote also from Mr. Marty goes to prove the point I am making concerning the shift away from client server playback for in-home media.

                        "But now when you speak to digital enthusiast, when they are looking at digital products, they are looking for cloud based access (streaming). It is almost an expectation."

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Re: CFF at uvdemystified

                          Originally posted by Walter-S_North_Carolina View Post
                          Well, perhaps I am wrong, but I do not think so.

                          I think that in home client server setups for media playback are becoming passe. I am sure I heard Jim Taylor say the same during an interview. After all, 100% of NetFlix users stream 100% of their media. Streaming has become commonplace and ubiquitous to such a level as negating the need to download for playback except in a few niche customer markets.

                          ...also, what you call an oversight I think is naive interpretation of corporate actions. Sony Corp is a CE company based in Japan. Opps is not a word they are familiar with. The absence of DLNA was a deliberate decision with business goals in mind. To consider it an Opps is just not reality.
                          I think the reverse is happening or will happen. The combination of more high-def content available, bandwidth caps, ease of front end (Plex, Playon, TVersity, etc.) setup, and dirt cheap storage are making downloads a very attractive alternative to streaming purely from the internet.

                          For instance, I have just over 200 movies in my UV locker. Of those, about a quarter (~50) are movies I watch on a somewhat consistent basis (once or twice a month). I would much rather be able to download these as opposed to streaming them all the time. Eventually, I would download my entire collection, and develop a somewhat regular rotation of even a larger selection, since I wouldn't have to worry about bandwidth caps.

                          As I mentioned in another thread, Netflix is not a good example. You do not purchase content through them, you purchase the right to watch whatever they offer up. Also, while "100% of Netflix users stream 100% of the content" is a true statement by itself, it does not support your point because you have omitted the key fact that Netflix does not offer downloads at all.

                          This statement also glosses over the fact that Amazon Prime Video, a direct Netflix competitor, does offer downloads. Now, you can only download to the Kindle Fire HDX (newest model), but if Amazon didn't think it would be A.) a competitive advantage over Netflix and B.) A way to sell more hardware, they would not have gone through the trouble of negotiating with the studios to get it. The fact they are willing to jump through I'm sure some insane hoops and shell out the money to get downloads of subscription content available does offer, at the very least, anecdotal evidence that downloads are important.

                          Comment

                            #28
                            Re: CFF at uvdemystified

                            Originally posted by BlakkMajik3000 View Post
                            ...

                            This statement also glosses over the fact that Amazon Prime Video, a direct Netflix competitor, does offer downloads. Now, you can only download to the Kindle Fire HDX (newest model), ...
                            Not sure what you mean by this? Amazon Instant Video (may be different than Prime Video because I don't have Prime?) allows you to download to your TiVo (1080p).

                            Comment

                              #29
                              Re: CFF at uvdemystified

                              Originally posted by lujan View Post
                              Not sure what you mean by this? Amazon Instant Video (may be different than Prime Video because I don't have Prime?) allows you to download to your TiVo (1080p).
                              Amazon Instant Video is the EST model. Amazon Prime Instant Video, available only to Prime members, is a Netflix-type service. With Amazon Instant Video, you can download your purchases to any device that supports it. With Prime Instant Video, you can only download to the Kindle Fire HDX.

                              There's some content Prime Video has that Netflix doesn't, and vice versa. In all honesty, if I didn't already use Prime for the 2-day shipping, I wouldn't sign up for it for the sole purpose of the Video benefit.

                              Comment

                                #30
                                Re: CFF at uvdemystified

                                I find this thread intriguing.....I am solidly in the download camp.....can't wait for CFF to be deployed......I prefer to have my films locally stored rather than have them in "the cloud", being stored on someone else's servers.....I have two NAS servers feeding a WD Live Hub.....when CFF is available, those films in the cloud will be downloaded to them......I have a total of 30TB waiting......I don't like the risks of storing any of my data in the cloud....Look what happened to Target. Any datacenter can be hacked, and wouldn't UV movies stored in the cloud be an inviting target?(pardon the pun)......not only that, where I live there are outages from time to time for internet service due to storms, etc.....

                                All that said, I cast one vote in the download camp......

                                Comment

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