How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

[VolkerS]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

I just purchased my Vudu and learned that my Sony KDL-40XBR2 is 1080p/60 capable, not 1080p/24. From my online reading, looks like 1080p/60 is much more common than 1080p/24. Any chance of Vudu adding 1080p/60 capability?

Given my Sony's native mode is 1080p, the Vudu 1080i signal is being upscaled, correct? If so, am I really missing out on anything?

http://forum.vudu.com/showpost.php?p=11416&postcount=9

[NA9D]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

I just purchased my Vudu and learned that my Sony KDL-40XBR2 is 1080p/60 capable, not 1080p/24. From my online reading, looks like 1080p/60 is much more common than 1080p/24. Any chance of Vudu adding 1080p/60 capability?

Given my Sony's native mode is 1080p, the Vudu 1080i signal is being upscaled, correct? If so, am I really missing out on anything?

I think Volker's post covers it pretty well. But to re-iterate: It is unlikely the Vudu will support 1080p/60. If you think about it 1080i/30 and 1080p/60 are very similar. In one case you do 30 frames a second but you interlace two sets of 540p signals (1080i). In reality, this is almost like 540p/60 since you really are displaying 60 unique frames of video every second. In 1080p/60, you do 60 frames a second but not interlaced. It's virtually the same and it's the "easy" way out for a TV to be produced that has the 1080p moniker.

Movies, OTOH, are filmed at 24fps. So 1080p/24 is going to give a high def movie the truest image.

And it's no issue to upconvert 1080i/30 to 1080p/60 w/o any loss in quality...

[TuffWoD]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

I have a Sony Bravia KDL-46V2500. It does not appear that it supports 1080p/24. Does this mean that I will not be able to watch the HD movies offered thru VUDU? Or will my set just convert the signal to somthing else?

[MaxH]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

I have a Sony Bravia KDL-46V2500. It does not appear that it supports 1080p/24. Does this mean that I will not be able to watch the HD movies offered thru VUDU? Or will my set just convert the signal to somthing else?

Your set should be capable of 1080i, in which case that would be the best choice. Even if you had to watch over S-video or composite, you could watch the HD movies on VUDU through those outputs, it would just be at 480i instead of in HD (although you might as well rent/buy the SD version in that case).

[NA9D]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

Using a 1080i/30 signal converted to 1080p/60 by your TV will result in NO loss of quality. All it does is deinterlace the frames.

[558973]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

I just purchased a Sony KDL-52XBR4. It is 120hz and capable of 1080/24P. The vudu box wants to set the HDMI Resolution to 1080i (preferred by TV). I do have 1080P listed as on option. Any recommendations on the setting I should use?

Here are the TV specs:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665153949

[VolkerS]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

If we do let you select 1080p you should use it. Our 1.3 software will pick 1080p/24 as TV preferred.

[NA9D]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

If we do let you select 1080p you should use it. Our 1.3 software will pick 1080p/24 as TV preferred.

It's not being listed as an option though for him.

[Nded]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

It's not being listed as an option though for him.

The way I read the OP, he does see it as an available choice:

I do have 1080P listed as on option.

[558973]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

The way I read the OP, he does see it as an available choice:

I do have 1080p listed as an option (not 1080p/24). From other posts, I assume that's what 1080p implies. Thanks for the help...

[NA9D]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

My bad. I misread the post while half asleep!

[TinL]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

I just purchased a Sony KDL-52XBR4. It is 120hz and capable of 1080/24P. The vudu box wants to set the HDMI Resolution to 1080i (preferred by TV). I do have 1080P listed as on option. Any recommendations on the setting I should use?

Here are the TV specs:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665153949

You should use 1080p/24. I have the 46XBR4 and 1080p/24 works great.

Tin

[blue_misfit]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

True 1080i60 -> 1080p60 is NOT a lossless process!!

Deinterlacing is never perfect. Ever.

It can be quite good, but never perfect.

What you're essentially doing is taking two 1920x540 images and scaling them up to 1920x1080. It's not that simple, because the two images are offset temporally and spatially, so you can do motion analysis to make more intelligent interpolation decisions, but it's never perfect.

To re-iterate - deinterlacing means you are attempting to re-create information that was lost when the original image was interlaced.

It can look pretty good however, and the quality depends both on the source and the device performing the deinterlacing. High end systems have dedicated processors / scalers that will do this for all sources, and match the format that's ideal for your TV.

HOWEVER, if you're watching a movie on Vudu, chances are it's really progressive at 23.976fps which has soft pulldown applied to fit in 1080i.

Removing this 3:2 pulldown is _very_ simple, and is lossless.

Now, on to the other topic, 1080p24.

1080p24 can be displayed by all TVs. When I say displayed, I don't mean perfectly! Most LCDs operate at 60hz natively. This means the screen is refreshed 60 times per second, which means 60 frames per second. It's all the same.

Now, 24fps obviously doesn't cleanly go into 60fps. 30fps is easy, because you just display each frame twice - very simple. However, with 24fps, things get tricky.

If you've got sensitive eyes, you _will_ see tearing in (for example) a panning scene at high speed. 24fps has a good deal of flickering in these instances anyway, but the tearing becomes obvious.

There are ways of buffering and tricking things into looking better, but the best solution is to have an LCD that does natively support refresh rates that are a multiple of 24. A common compromise is 72hz. I used to always run my computer's CRT at 96Hz, (okay 95.904 for 23.976 * 4) which was very flicker free, and was a perfect match for 24p content. But.. I have a 24" Benq widescreen LCD for my computer now, and tragically it only does 60hz or 75hz. Not good. I have a lot of tearing. The aforementioned tricks do help a lot, but it's not the same as true 24p.

Honestly, I'm _very_ picky though. 1080p24 will look great on a 1080p30 / 1080p60 TV. The 1080i signal that comes out of Vudu is pretty darned good!!

~MiSfit

[HeadHodge]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

There are ways of buffering and tricking things into looking better, but the best solution is to have an LCD that does natively support refresh rates that are a multiple of 24. A common compromise is 72hz. I used to always run my computer's CRT at 96Hz, (okay 95.904 for 23.976 * 4) which was very flicker free, and was a perfect match for 24p content.

I'm still looking into buying a Sony LCD.

It's supposed to have 120Hz refresh rates. Their claim to fame is that it is both a multiple of 24 FPS and 60 FPS and supports 5:5 and 2:2 pulldowns respectively.

So do you think they really can do that and if so would you agree that a 120HZ refresh rate would be even better than a 72Hz or 96Hz refresh rate for image quality?

I'm asking, because I don't really know, but it sounds like you're fairly up on the topic. I'm just trying to clarify my understanding in order to make a better purchase decision.

Regards

[Nded]

Re: How can you tell if 1080p/24 is supported?

True 1080i60 -> 1080p60 is NOT a lossless process!!

Deinterlacing is never perfect. Ever.

It can be quite good, but never perfect.

What you're essentially doing is taking two 1920x540 images and scaling them up to 1920x1080. It's not that simple, because the two images are offset temporally and spatially, so you can do motion analysis to make more intelligent interpolation decisions, but it's never perfect.

To re-iterate - deinterlacing means you are attempting to re-create information that was lost when the original image was interlaced.

It can look pretty good however, and the quality depends both on the source and the device performing the deinterlacing. High end systems have dedicated processors / scalers that will do this for all sources, and match the format that's ideal for your TV.

HOWEVER, if you're watching a movie on Vudu, chances are it's really progressive at 23.976fps which has soft pulldown applied to fit in 1080i.

Removing this 3:2 pulldown is _very_ simple, and is lossless.

Now, on to the other topic, 1080p24.

1080p24 can be displayed by all TVs. When I say displayed, I don't mean perfectly! Most LCDs operate at 60hz natively. This means the screen is refreshed 60 times per second, which means 60 frames per second. It's all the same.

Now, 24fps obviously doesn't cleanly go into 60fps. 30fps is easy, because you just display each frame twice - very simple. However, with 24fps, things get tricky.

If you've got sensitive eyes, you _will_ see tearing in (for example) a panning scene at high speed. 24fps has a good deal of flickering in these instances anyway, but the tearing becomes obvious.

There are ways of buffering and tricking things into looking better, but the best solution is to have an LCD that does natively support refresh rates that are a multiple of 24. A common compromise is 72hz. I used to always run my computer's CRT at 96Hz, (okay 95.904 for 23.976 * 4) which was very flicker free, and was a perfect match for 24p content. But.. I have a 24" Benq widescreen LCD for my computer now, and tragically it only does 60hz or 75hz. Not good. I have a lot of tearing. The aforementioned tricks do help a lot, but it's not the same as true 24p.

Honestly, I'm _very_ picky though. 1080p24 will look great on a 1080p30 / 1080p60 TV. The 1080i signal that comes out of Vudu is pretty darned good!!

~MiSfit

Wow - phenominal first post - WELCOME to the Vudu forum. I hope we will hear more from you, quite often.