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Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

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  • rstone
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    Originally posted by jleavens View Post
    I'm sure this is general licensing. For instance, the iTunes Store doesn't let you re-download music tracks that you've previously purchased, even though they have a clear record of your purchase. Doubt they let you re-download movies, but I could be wrong.
    That may be true, but the difference is that iTunes allows you to archive your music, and movies on external devices and/or media, so in theory you should not need to download the content again...as long as you keep a backup.

    Leave a comment:


  • aaronwt
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    This is why if the content is just tied to the card, everything is covered. It can't be watched unless the proper card is inserted. that would allow users to download the content to another box to watch that was previously purchased with that card. And when the card is removed, any content that is tied to that card cannot be watched.
    Tying it to the card allows the content to be watched on multiple boxes . Just like Xbox Live ties the content to the gamertags only in this situation you would need a physical card. Although I guess for extra security measures there should also be a password associated with the card for when you first stick it in the box. That way if it was stolen it couldn't be used without the associated password.

    Leave a comment:


  • TSJordan
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    Originally posted by Rusdude View Post
    Vino17's post is very good, as usual. We are early adopters and have to suffer for the betterment of humankind

    But anyway, it'll be nice to have a better policy in place with regards to purchases. I think, ability to archive on a cloud AND on a user's hard drive (in case, Vudu goes the way of Movielink) and having purchases tied to an account (for multi-box households) is a must.
    I'm not as optimistic as you are, the most I am hoping for is that the vendor, Vudu in this case, is the archive for anything I purchase. It would be great if they let the genie out of the box and let us move movies off the box but I'm not holding my breath.

    I see no chance that they will tie movies to an account for multi-box households unless they change the rules. Human nature being what it is you have to assume that in many cases one box will be in one location and the other box(es) will be somewhere else. Think FRAUD. Please understand that I'm not saying you would do this, I'm just saying that it would happen.

    Of course, if we gave up some existing capabilities maybe we could get multi-box support. Today you can disconnect your box from the Internet / your network and it still works. You can take it with you to Hawaii and watch it on the beach if you can get a compatible display there. If the box always had to be connected to the Interent to work they could log ip address changes but that's not foolproof since they can change from time to time and some people have more than one provider and switch if their primary provider has a problem. So, they most likely would have to program the boxes in a multi-box account to detect all other boxes before downloading or playing a movie. No taking the box with you on the road, no taking it out on the patio without wireless and a real pain if one box fails since there would be no movie viewing until the bad box was back on-line. Would everyone be willing to accept the tradeoffs? Doubtful, since "everyone" never seem to agree on anything.

    I know some music is now being sold DRM free but with songs going for $1 and movies going for $10 - $20 I think it will be a long time before we see a system that lets you purchase and download a movie ( especially an HD movie ) and be free to do anything you want with it.

    Tim

    Leave a comment:


  • vino17
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    Originally posted by Rusdude View Post

    But anyway, it'll be nice to have a better policy in place with regards to purchases. I think, ability to archive on a cloud AND on a user's hard drive (in case, Vudu goes the way of Movielink) and having purchases tied to an account (for multi-box households) is a must.

    Vudu's been great about listening to their customer base so far. It wouldn't surprise me to see them take steps toward this in the future. It takes some time to implement all that stuff, but I'm with you in that they are becoming must-have features.

    I'm still happy in the meantime though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rusdude
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    Vino17's post is very good, as usual. We are early adopters and have to suffer for the betterment of humankind

    But anyway, it'll be nice to have a better policy in place with regards to purchases. I think, ability to archive on a cloud AND on a user's hard drive (in case, Vudu goes the way of Movielink) and having purchases tied to an account (for multi-box households) is a must.

    Leave a comment:


  • vino17
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    Tim,

    I don't think you're too old or set in your ways. What you're referencing is the heart of 2 of digital distribution's key obstacles: ownership / portability and uniformity.

    As you noted, we are all early adopters, and as such we have to realize that we're buying into a model that is not yet fully fleshed out. It's going to take some time for digital distribution to address many of the issues you have touched upon which are still preventing this corner of the industry from becoming mass-market. Digital distribution accounts for only about 1% of home entertainment revenue, and that's simply because you and I (and Vudu users in general) are the exception. We are a niche audience right now, and until those issues get resolved, digital distribution will only grow at a snail's pace.

    I don't make digital purchases either (via Vudu or any other format) because it's unwieldy and limited in scope. Until I, as a consumer, am confident that what I choose to purchase remains mine, regardless of venue, format, or device, I will not be making those purchases. I do not want to purchase the right to watch something on a specific device... I want to purchase something and control the ways and methods by which I choose to view it, without exception. Otherwise, I don't consider it a purchase... it's an end-user license with built-in restrictions. That's exactly why physical goods (DVD, Blu-Ray) will continue to remain the format of choice... because they'll play in a Sony player, a Panasonic player, an LG player, etc. There's uniformity there which meets consumer expectation. Digital distribution has no such uniformity, and Caveat Emptor is still the rule of thumb. That's also why piracy will remain rampant for the foreseeable future. Sure, there are some that will continue to steal content no matter what, but if there were better options that were more user and consumer-friendly, the incentive to pirate content is decreased.

    And all this coming from a huge proponent of digital distribution...!

    Like I said though, there's plenty of time for evolution. For all we know, Vudu will establish an online portal a year from now, and allow you to download movies that are tied to your account in WM format - similar to Amazon Unbox - and allow you to sync up multiple boxes with a cap on the number of registered devices. That's still not the answer for the digital distribution business as a whole, but it's a good first step that would at least assure the consumer that that when they make a purchase, they truly own that product... making it much more appealing as an alternative to physical product purchases. After that we should also start to see an increase in affordable bandwidth (the US ranks 14th among industrialized nations in average speeds, behind Japan, South Korea, Australia, and most of western Europe) and interoperability. My personal opinion is that the industry will really start to take off when we hit what I call the 30/50 point. When you can get a 30Mbps connection at $50 per month, I have a feeling this sector will absolutely explode with consumer interest and possibility.

    Also, it's worth noting that the feedback from the early adopters in the industry is crucial to that evolution. Service-specific forums like this one, or others like AVS, are a goldmine in gauging user reaction and shaping new iterations of services and devices. So keep complaining about the stuff you don't like, and make sure you praise the things that you do like to make sure those aspects continue to receive support, or maybe even become enhanced.

    In the meantime, I'll continue to rent movies using Vudu, because I'm happy with the catalog of films, the quality of the image, and the convenience in immediacy and availability. It beats the hell out of most options out there.

    Leave a comment:


  • TSJordan
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    Originally posted by jleavens View Post
    I don't think it's just delineated by TV or movie - I think there are movies that have licensing which allows you to re-download them.

    I'm sure this is general licensing. For instance, the iTunes Store doesn't let you re-download music tracks that you've previously purchased, even though they have a clear record of your purchase. Doubt they let you re-download movies, but I could be wrong.

    I think we've established that if the box breaks, at least in the first year, you will keep all your movies. My guess is that by the time there are VUDU boxes out there more than a year old, there may be a policy that covers them as well (this is conjecture on my part, I'm not speaking with any specific knowledge).
    Quoted from the FAQ "Archiving is available for all TV shows and select movies. Archived titles are stored in the VUDU Vault." As far I know you are not informed when buying a movie whether it can be archived or not so you have to buy it and then find out whether you got lucky or not. Does not work for me.

    Don't use ITunes or any other paid service at this time but in my opinion how they work is not relevant to how I want the system I use to work. I do realize the similarities between all the current systems are probably due to demands made by the studios but I don't have to like it or go along.

    I don't think we have established that if your box breaks in the first year you will get to keep all your movies. I think what we have established is that you will get a credit for all the moives you bought and IF they are still available for purchase you can buy them again. If they are not available for purchase and do not ever become available to purchase again you are out of luck and will not be able to purchase it even though you did in the past.

    I like my Vudu box. I hate many of the restrictions on how I can use it. I understand that many / all of the restrictions are imposed on Vudu by the studios. I'm worried about whether Vudu will be able to survive with all the restrictions.

    I may just be too old and set in my ways to be as impulsive as other users and ignore the restrictions. I hope the restrictions go away but I'm not optimistic that they will any time soon.

    Tim

    Leave a comment:


  • NA9D
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    Justin's right. The archival nature of each movie is set on its own. I think Total Recall is one move that can be archived. There are others too. I have no idea why the licensing rules are as they are. To me the best and most secure solution is to allow every movie to be fragmented across the P2P network and be able to be archived. There's no reason it shouldn't be this way...

    Leave a comment:


  • jleavens
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    Originally posted by TSJordan View Post
    I think the situation with movies you buy is worse than you think it is, especially for movies published by the major studios.

    As I understand the rules if you buy a movie and then decide you want to free up the space it is using on your Vudu hard drive ( whether the drive is full or not ) your only option for most movies is to delete it. Once deleted, if you later want to view it you have to buy it again or rent it.

    TV shows that you have purchased don't work like this, you can archive them ( delete them from your Vudu hard drive ) and then download them again later if you decide you want to view them again without paying again.
    I don't think it's just delineated by TV or movie - I think there are movies that have licensing which allows you to re-download them.


    Even if they give me a way to move them to a USB hard drive if the rules still say that if I need to download again a movie that I purchased on the box that I purchased it on or it's replacement if the box dies then I will NEVER purchase a movie. Inconvenient for me but bad for Vudu since they lose the purchase revenue.
    I'm sure this is general licensing. For instance, the iTunes Store doesn't let you re-download music tracks that you've previously purchased, even though they have a clear record of your purchase. Doubt they let you re-download movies, but I could be wrong.

    But, as long as Vudu is in business and has a record of everything I purchased from them I expect to be able to download anything I purchased any time I need to for any reason on the box I purchased it on or it's replacement if it has failed. This would include movies that are not currently available for rent or purchase, if I purchased a movie it should always show up on my box as an option.
    I think we've established that if the box breaks, at least in the first year, you will keep all your movies. My guess is that by the time there are VUDU boxes out there more than a year old, there may be a policy that covers them as well (this is conjecture on my part, I'm not speaking with any specific knowledge).

    Leave a comment:


  • TSJordan
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    I think the situation with movies you buy is worse than you think it is, especially for movies published by the major studios.

    As I understand the rules if you buy a movie and then decide you want to free up the space it is using on your Vudu hard drive ( whether the drive is full or not ) your only option for most movies is to delete it. Once deleted, if you later want to view it you have to buy it again or rent it.

    TV shows that you have purchased don't work like this, you can archive them ( delete them from your Vudu hard drive ) and then download them again later if you decide you want to view them again without paying again.

    Go to My Vudu / Archive or Delete and check the options for any movies you have purchased. I only have the 2 Bourne movies that came with my unit and my only option is to Delete them ... I cannot archive them.

    While I'm sure this is something that the studios insisted on and not something the Vudu people decided to add it definitely affects the way I use my Vudu.

    I will not buy any movies on Vudu under the current rules.

    Even if they give me a way to move them to a USB hard drive if the rules still say that if I need to download again a movie that I purchased on the box that I purchased it on or it's replacement if the box dies then I will NEVER purchase a movie. Inconvenient for me but bad for Vudu since they lose the purchase revenue.

    I realize that if Vudu goes out of business and then my box breaks I probably have lost everything on the box if it fails, that is the price of being an early adopter and I can accept that.

    But, as long as Vudu is in business and has a record of everything I purchased from them I expect to be able to download anything I purchased any time I need to for any reason on the box I purchased it on or it's replacement if it has failed. This would include movies that are not currently available for rent or purchase, if I purchased a movie it should always show up on my box as an option.

    Tim

    Leave a comment:


  • Rusdude
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    I actually think that everything should be tied to your account period -- this was a multi-box household doesn't need to pay multiple times. For example, if I have a movie on Box 1, why do I need to pay again to watch it on Box 2 if both are tied to the same account?

    Additionally, simply re-issuing credits isn't always going to work. What if a movie is no longer on Vudu (e.g. Bourne Ultimatum is currently MIA)? And anyway, it's a pain to re-download everything. What if I don't even remember all the movies I had on a particular box (can't use the website since it combines all boxes)?

    Bottom line -- all the content should be recoverable so it could be transferred to a new box (when an old one fails even if it's out of warranty) or you want to upgrade. Upgrade situation is especially obvious because VUDU presumably will want people upgrading to new boxes.

    Leave a comment:


  • aaronwt
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    Originally posted by NA9D View Post
    I know this is something that has been stressed to Vudu for some time - the ability to recover content from a busted device or upgrade hardware. The issue has to do with the way the licensing structure currently works. The content is actually licensed to the box not to you, as far as I see it (IANAL). I don't think that they want to shaft anyone rather I think their hands are tied right now. Vudu customer service is always trying to help people maximize their experience.

    A long term sort of guarantee needs to happen as hard drives do fail and it's generally not within a year but after many. The last think Vudu needs is 100s or thousands of users who's drives start to fail in 4 to 6 years and then are out the hundreds of dollars in purchased content. Not good. I think Vudu management would agree on that and I am confident they will try to find some way to get around that.

    Why can't the content be tied to the card in the box. That way you just move the card to another box and it would enable you to download it again without a cost. Plus you would need to have the card in the box to be able to watch it.
    That way it would be similar to Xbox Live where you need to be signed in with your Gamertag to re-download content and to watch it.

    I don't understand the reason for the card in each box if it can't be removed and used in another box at some point. Otherwise it should have just been built into the box and have no way of it being removed.

    Leave a comment:


  • NA9D
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    I know this is something that has been stressed to Vudu for some time - the ability to recover content from a busted device or upgrade hardware. The issue has to do with the way the licensing structure currently works. The content is actually licensed to the box not to you, as far as I see it (IANAL). I don't think that they want to shaft anyone rather I think their hands are tied right now. Vudu customer service is always trying to help people maximize their experience.

    A long term sort of guarantee needs to happen as hard drives do fail and it's generally not within a year but after many. The last think Vudu needs is 100s or thousands of users who's drives start to fail in 4 to 6 years and then are out the hundreds of dollars in purchased content. Not good. I think Vudu management would agree on that and I am confident they will try to find some way to get around that.

    Leave a comment:


  • redwein
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    I do think that losing content in any case would be an extremely negative experience for the customer involved. With hard drives, it is easy to see how that could happen. That's why, with your computer, it is common sense to back up anything that is valuable. The fact that you have no way to back up content seems to be a glaring customer satisfaction issue in the future and a legitimate reason for people to be afraid to buy Vudu (or at least purchase movies on it).

    For me personally, I don't plan to use it to buy movies. I plan to only rent them. Of course, since some movies aren't rentable, I end up buying some and throwing them away so the issue won't "really" affect me. However, I can see from other customers' perspectives it easily could.

    Leave a comment:


  • jleavens
    replied
    Re: Transferring owned titles - Can't Do?

    Seems to me that if my box broke after 1 year was up, that there would be little incentive to replace it if my content didn't come with me. I'm sure that when the time comes, the boxes can be repaired for a fee post-warranty, but I might just want to pick up a new one with a bigger hard drive.

    Leave a comment:

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