Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

[davezatz]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

NO smart card in the world allows you to take that smart card and put it in someone else's box and view content. The D* or E* boxes do not do it, Vudu does not do it, no one's. Maybe that was the original idea, but everyone ended up tying the smart card to the box. The smart card is integral to the encryption key. But since it is tied to the box, it has to be used with that box.

CableCARD? RSA Token?

Sorry, I think it's funny that somebody lugs their clunky VUDU box around the country to watch a movie.

Agreed. The only box I've tried taking with me has been the Roku Netflix box which I was able to toss into my backpack. Unfortunately, the hotel firewall killed that plan.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

CableCARD? RSA Token?

I can't even remove my cable card from my Tivo and reinsert it without having to call the cable company and re-pair the card. In that process, I have to identify myself as the account owner by giving the last 4 of my social. I know this because I tried it as an "experiment" once.

[NA9D]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Well, that's not what Mr. Tony Miranz said in one of his last public announcements. "We're a software company first and foremost,"

I still don't see where that says they are a software only company...Vudu has always been about the software. They told me that nearly 2 years ago and that was before the box was on the market.

The concept of Non-repudiation, that I'm talking about, using a physical device (smartcard or any device with the hash) is similar to the ATM machine concept. No one carries an ATM machine with them. Btw, I recall having a cable box from CableVision with a SmartCard and the box failed. The box was replaced, but I kept the same smartcard........

In the example above, the box and smart card were still tied together. They just attached the card to the new box.

You need to give me an example of moving it from place to place.

I agree with you on the way it "should" be but that's different than the way it is.

We should have a flat tax of 10 to 15 percent. We don't. It's going to be at 40% for a lot of us real soon...I could engage in shoulds all day.

[tamanaco]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

I still don't see where that says they are a software only company...Vudu has always been about the software. They told me that nearly 2 years ago and that was before the box was on the market.

Well, he did not say... second and last.

In the example above, the box and smart card were still tied together. They just attached the card to the new box.

You need to give me an example of moving it from place to place.

I agree with you on the way it "should" be but that's different than the way it is.

We should have a flat tax of 10 to 15 percent. We don't. It's going to be at 40% for a lot of us real soon...I could engage in shoulds all day.

My point was not to show specific examples, but to describe what the existing technology in the Vudu box "is" capable of doing. I bet you that the smartcard in the slot of the Vudu is used for identification purposes. Having "any" physical device (card in Vudu slot) tied to authentication facilitates non-repudiation. Having said that... in "my" view... with these components already in the box... Vudu can easily implement (if not already implemented) a secured delivery model with non-repudiation and a mobile identification token (smartcard) in place. That's all.

Btw, I wonder what is Vudu's recovery policy for purchased content. If I travel with the Vudu box and it's stolen or lost... Will they replaced all the content I purchased and download it to another box?... There might be a hole here as the lost or stolen box would continue to play the content while disconnected.

I won't be carrying my Vudu box anywhere, but seeing the picture of the IBM PC Portable above reminded me of the days I carried one of those from gate 10 to gate 300 in some far out airport. That thing was heavy... but the dual diskette drives allowed me to run Lotus 123 in one drive while saving the data on the other. My had the amber (plama) screen.

[illuscon]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Why doesn't VUDU make some headlines and release sales figures? Why the deafening silence? Don't you all think VUDU owes users at least some blunt discussion on this topic since users have invested their hard earned money and faith in their product?

Is it ethical to encourage users to buy films that will only play on a VUDU box when this central question has not been addressed?

[NA9D]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Why doesn't VUDU make some headlines and release sales figures? Why the deafening silence? Don't you all think VUDU owes users at least some blunt discussion on this topic since users have invested their hard earned money and faith in their product?

Is it ethical to encourage users to buy films that will only play on a VUDU box when this central question has not been addressed?

Name a private company that releases sales figures. There's nothing unethical about it. Would you want to post your income on this forum for us to know? I didn't think so. Vudu's not a public company. They have no need to post what their revenues are. And even if they did, what difference would it make? Say they are smaller than everyone's expectations. People would get a negative idea. But what if those numbers were larger than Vudu's expectations and Vudu's plans? What if their investors were pleased? Certainly, they would not post their entire business plan for the world (including their competitors) to see.

[NA9D]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

W
My point was not to show specific examples, but to describe what the existing technology in the Vudu box "is" capable of doing. I bet you that the smartcard in the slot of the Vudu is used for identification purposes. Having "any" physical device (card in Vudu slot) tied to authentication facilitates non-repudiation.

I can pretty much tell you that from what I know the smart card is tied directly to the encryption key for the box.

I understand perfectly what the technology is capable of. I'm not arguing about that. But we could sit and discuss "shoulds" all day long and it makes not one bit of difference because the way things "should" be is not reality but fantasy. I repeat again: I am not aware of a single smart card device on the market that lets me take and move that card to a different device and get content there. It doesn't happen.

[illuscon]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Name a private company that releases sales figures. There's nothing unethical about it. Would you want to post your income on this forum for us to know? I didn't think so. Vudu's not a public company. They have no need to post what their revenues are. And even if they did, what difference would it make? Say they are smaller than everyone's expectations. People would get a negative idea. But what if those numbers were larger than Vudu's expectations and Vudu's plans? What if their investors were pleased? Certainly, they would not post their entire business plan for the world (including their competitors) to see.

There are actually many private companies that release sales figures. An extensive directory of private companies can be found at Hoovers, a Dun & Bradstreet company.

I would not post my income because I am not asking for consumers to invest in a product - VUDU is. So your argument is specious and I'm sorry to say, dishonest. Certainly, if things were rosy VUDU would announce their financial results happily. That would attract new capital investment. By not releasing any information about their financial status VUDU opens themselves up to these kinds of questions. Even the media has picked up on this disconnect.

So yes, it is a reasonable question to ask; is it ethical for VUDU to encourage users to purchase films, knowing the only way to watch these films is on a VUDU box and the only way archive these films is on their "cloud". If VUDU goes under, these purchased films are no longer available to the user. In some cases, that could be a significant amount of money lost. I do believe that under VUDU's current business model, with no other way to recoup these purchased films, VUDU owes their user base a blunt and detailed "state of the business" discussion. Especially, in light of current business climate a company should not be perceived as hiding information from their customers.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

So yes, it is a reasonable question to ask; is it ethical for VUDU to encourage users to purchase films, knowing the only way to watch these films is on a VUDU box and the only way archive these films is on their "cloud". If VUDU goes under, these purchased films are no longer available to the user. In some cases, that could be a significant amount of money lost. I do believe that under VUDU's current business model, with no other way to recoup these purchased films, VUDU owes their user base a blunt and detailed "state of the business" discussion. Especially, in light of current business climate a company should not be perceived as hiding information from their customers.

It clearly bothers you so don't spend any money on it. As far as Vudu running the company, I'll let them and their investors figure out the best way to succeed. They have much more of a vested interest in it than you do.

And no, Vudu does not "owe" you anything. They "owe" their investors the best opportunity to recoup and grow their investment. They provide a product and service to their customers at a price and with certain risks (just like any other company). If you don't like it, go buy it elsewhere. Or you could choose to only rent, then you won't have any possibility of getting "ripped off" and you can still get a great deal of value out of the Vudu. The choice is yours.

If, at some point, they become a public company, then the would "owe" you the information you request. Claiming that it's bad news just because they don't inform you of their quarterly sales is ridiculous. By that logic, I believe I could say you are all kinds of things because you have failed to prove to me that you aren't. Logic clearly differentiates between "absence of knowledge" and "knowledge of absence" types of scenarios.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

There are actually many private companies that release sales figures. An extensive directory of private companies can be found at Hoovers, a Dun & Bradstreet company.

And most do not. Are they all "unethical" asking their customers to buy whatever product or service they are selling without giving them a rundown of their business operations? Heck, even some public companies, like Chrylser, should stop selling cars because it is clearly evident that they might not be in business for even the length of the warranty. In both public and private companies, it is up to the customer to determine if the cost/value/risk equation makes sense. When you run a company, you can do as you please. If you are funded by any sort of VC, they may discourage or limit you from releasing such information.

[deparson]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

You have a good point about the value of delivering the media in electronic format fro the start; I was not thinking about the cost of the drive space and equipment and time to copy DVDs, etc and make them available to a TV. It is not a small cost and VUDU gets around that from the start.

I don't have a STB for playing video from a HD but I am thinking about something like Popcorn Hour which would be ~~$350 for the box and a 1.5TB HD. Not sure yet. I would love it if VUDU could take on that role with, perhaps, a $100 1.5TB USB drive pluged in to it. That would really increase its value but is likely not part of VUDU's business model.

Still, charging $6 MORE for a VUDU only copy of a film vs. a Bluray disk is a non-starter for 99.9% of the population.

(I do love VUDU though!)

I agree with a lot of what you say. However, I would disagree a bit on this part. I don't think you can really equate the "amount" you are getting between the 2. While it is true you don't get the physical disk, etc., I can personally say that having a movie collection comprised of physical disks became almost completely useless to me due to the inability to store them in an organized fashion, know what I had, find it when I needed, etc. Then, I bought a s&&tload of equipment and spent $1000s trying to bring the value back to being something useful again by creating my own homegrown VOD solution. Continuing to do that would have cost me a lot of time and money (way more than buying it on Vudu).

So in effect, assuming that I can rent what I want to watch, when I want to watch it, and buy the movies that it makes sense for me to own and archive them on the cloud, I am getting much more with Vudu and paying much less. Sometimes you have to look at the differences between the things more completely to determine their real cost vs. value.

[illuscon]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

And most do not. Are they all "unethical" asking their customers to buy whatever product or service they are selling without giving them a rundown of their business operations? Heck, even some public companies, like Chrylser, should stop selling cars because it is clearly evident that they might not be in business for even the length of the warranty. In both public and private companies, it is up to the customer to determine if the cost/value/risk equation makes sense. When you run a company, you can do as you please. If you are funded by any sort of VC, they may discourage or limit you from releasing such information.

Apparently, you did not visit the Dun & Bradstreet link I provided where hundreds of private companies do make their financial information available to the general public. VUDU makes no information public except CFO happy talk quips.

As to your Chrylser non-point, everyone is well aware of the Big 3 car companies troubles. They have been discussed in great detail in the press and on their balance sheets. So the customer is well informed when considering the purchase of their products. Not so with VUDU. With VUDU, it is literally a crap shoot as to whether or not they will be around in six months or even 90 days. There is literally no transparency with regard to the company's health. So I believe VUDU owes users and potential customers a level of openness so they can consider for themselves whether or not to purchase HDX/STD films that can only be played on their hardware and archived on VUDU systems.

I am sensing that the moderators feel somewhat painted in a corner on this topic. That would be unfortunate. The use of irrelevant arguments to void a simple premise of fairness might be sending a bad message to the users following this thread. More astute users may have gleaned the information they need to make a decision by reading between moderators' lines.

[MaxH]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

So I believe VUDU owes users and potential customers a level of openness so they can consider for themselves whether or not to purchase HDX/STD films that can only be played on their hardware and archived on VUDU systems.

You can believe whatever you want, but their current customers must either disagree or feel that the benefit outweighs the risk. If Vudu is worried about missing out on people with your point of view as potential users, then they certainly should do as you say. I do hope for their sake that their marketing department has at least done a risk/benefit analysis of releasing that information.

I am sensing that the moderators feel somewhat painted in a corner on this topic. That would be unfortunate. The use of irrelevant arguments to void a simple premise of fairness might be sending a bad message to the users following this thread. More astute users may have gleaned the information they need to make a decision by reading between moderators' lines.

No moderators have posted in this thread, just happy Vudu users, which may be why you are having trouble finding others who agree with you. I'm sure you could find people to agree with you somewhere, but most members here came here because they bought a Vudu, which assumes a higher level of trust or faith in the company than you.

[illuscon]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

"No moderators have posted in this thread..."

That's not true. Check the thread. NA9D, as well as senior members and so called evangelists have commented. It saddens me that fairness and transparency seem to be inconvenient topics here. But at least I have my answer. I hope that VUDU's management reads this and has a more customer friendly take on this issue.

[RonV]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

"No moderators have posted in this thread..."

That's not true. Check the thread. NA9D, as well as senior members and so called evangelists have commented. It saddens me that fairness and transparency seem to be inconvenient topics here. But at least I have my answer. I hope that VUDU's management reads this and has a more customer friendly take on this issue.

illuscon,

Max is correct...none of the senior members here are moderators...this status is based on having a number of posts on the board...moderators have a tag line of "Moderator" or something like that. VUDU Employees are directly spelled out in their tag lines also.

As for being the VUDU Evangelist, I am just that. I am not a employee of VUDU...I just love the product and what it gives to me and my family as a consumer.

I think you points have been made is clear:

• don't like the idea of purchasing content and then having to store it on VUDU's network
• don't really own it if you can't use in on different devices.

Many of the other folks here have different opinions that were also expressed here so lets leave it at that...we all agree to have our own opinions and spend our dollars as we are free to do and take all the risks associated with our free will.