Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

[MaxH]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

"No moderators have posted in this thread..."

That's not true. Check the thread. NA9D, as well as senior members and so called evangelists have commented. It saddens me that fairness and transparency seem to be inconvenient topics here. But at least I have my answer. I hope that VUDU's management reads this and has a more customer friendly take on this issue.

What made you think NA9D is a moderator? He isn't.

[NA9D]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

If Vudu is unethical in their business model by not posting financials and if the product I buy today is useless tomorrow, it's not similar to a lot of things I hav purchased:

I have (or did have) some Sony Betamax tapes. But my Betamax player died a long time ago (actually I never had one - I got those tapes in college when a roommate had them). My investment in Betamax tapes was lost as I had to ditch my movies.

Let's see. Roku stopped making the Photobridge media player and didn't fix all the bugs in the software. Should I demand Roku (who doesn't release sales figures) apologize?

ReplayTV made DVRs. Today, they are somewhat useless for people who don't have cable as they are analog only. Was D&M Holdings unethical?

Hitachi promoted the HD-DVD format. Today it's gone. Was it unethical to promote that format knowing they might lose? All the people who purchased HD-DVD players, now have a fairly useless piece of equipment that they can get no new movies for. Was Hitachi and all those who backed that format unethical?

Finally, let me set the record straight on if I am a moderator here. I'm not. You must have me confused here with some other forums I am on. I AM a moderator at SlingCommunity.com. I am a moderator at PlanetVudu.com and at PlanetReplay.com. I am a regular forum member at Forum.vudu.com. You must have your sites mixed up or something....

[davezatz]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

I can't even remove my cable card from my Tivo and reinsert it without having to call the cable company and re-pair the card. In that process, I have to identify myself as the account owner by giving the last 4 of my social. I know this because I tried it as an "experiment" once.

Mine can go back and forth between units. And, in fact, I still have someone else's premium movie lineup on one card. Perhaps my cable-co/franchise isn't as locked down.

----

Regarding the talk about releasing financials, status, and what not. The companies that do so often prefer they didn't have to when the going's tough. However, publicly traded companies must disclose certain data. As far as Vudu goes, they are a private company and not required to share that data. Why would they? What benefit would it serve? The only folks who need to know are the investors, board, and potential suitors. Unless the info were outstanding, in which case it might be good for some press and reassuring customers or potential customers. Back in Nov or Dec I heard that they were in a serious world of hurt financially. Could be mere rumor, could be misinterpreted. Who knows. The fact is, with any start up, we as consumers are rolling the dice. Although we may not all realize it. (I say this as a guy who has tossed worthless Moviebeam, Akimbo, and ITVN units.)

[NA9D]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Mine can go back and forth between units. And, in fact, I still have someone else's premium movie lineup on one card. Perhaps my cable-co/franchise isn't as locked down.

Dang. Wish my cable cards could do that. Maybe your cableco knows how to actually support them! I can pull my cards in and out but not put them in other devices. The device's host ID is tied to the card.

Regarding the talk about releasing financials, status, and what not. The companies that do so often prefer they didn't have to when the going's tough. However, publicly traded companies must disclose certain data. As far as Vudu goes, they are a private company and not required to share that data. Why would they? What benefit would it serve? The only folks who need to know are the investors, board, and potential suitors. Unless the info were outstanding, in which case it might be good for some press and reassuring customers or potential customers. Back in Nov or Dec I heard that they were in a serious world of hurt financially. Could be mere rumor, could be misinterpreted. Who knows. The fact is, with any start up, we as consumers are rolling the dice. Although we may not all realize it. (I say this as a guy who has tossed useless Moviebeam, Akimbo, ITVN units.)

Exactly. I don't know where Vudu's financial situation is. I've heard your rumor and I've heard the opposite out there as well. It's all interpretation and one person's interpretation is different than another's. Some see Vudu's price lowering as a desperate act. Others see it as a natural maturation of the business.

The WORST thing anyone can stop doing is renting or purchasing Videos on their Vudu or not buy one if thinking about it. I think sales have been relatively healthy given the bad economy because I've seen a lot of new owners and users pop up here in the last few months. It's very encouraging.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Apparently, you did not visit the Dun & Bradstreet link I provided where hundreds of private companies do make their financial information available to the general public.

I don't know how you go from hundreds to most. I believe that hundreds do and "most" do not.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Still, charging $6 MORE for a VUDU only copy of a film vs. a Bluray disk is a non-starter for 99.9% of the population.=

You may be right there (perhaps not the 99.9% part but for many). But that still leaves the rental market for Vudu to clean up in. I envision VOD making rental the default way that movies are viewed with personal ownership of the content playing a declining roll in the future. So, if you are still on the ownership train, you can enjoy Vudu for rental only, purchase some on Vudu if you like, or buy Bluray for your purchases. Any of those scenarios is valid. If, as I predict, the desire to own content declines, Vudu's share of the overall movie market would go up.

As an example of why I believe this is possible, I now own over 700 DVDs and my overall average number of times I have watched each is way less than 1, maybe even .4 or so. I (actually my wife) bought most of them so that we would have them around if we were ever in the mood to watch them. Many of them still had their shrink wrap on when I ripped them to my NAS and we have still never watched them. Now that we have Vudu, we haven't bought any DVDs or Blurays and we are watching and enjoying more movies than ever. The few we have bought are mostly because they weren't offered for rental, not because we wanted to own them.

If every movie is available for on-demand rental (I agree we aren't there yet), then I would argue that most people will save money by paying the rental fee for each and every movie they watch, rather than by trying to guess which ones they will watch enough times to justify ownership. Plus, you don't have to worry about things like new HD formats. When you think about it, my 700 DVDs would be kind of obsolete if I can now rent them in HD (many of them I can). So I still end up renting things that I already own because of that.

[NA9D]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

The prices you pay for movies varies widely depending on where you go. I went to a Barnes and Noble last weekend to buy a copy of Prince Caspian since I had a gift card. The standard edition of the DVD (NOT BlueRay) was $29.99 and the collector's 3 disk edition w/digital copy was $39.99. I was shocked. I got a 10% discount but that's it. Amazon had the same stuff for a lot less. The only reason I bought it where I did was b/c of the gift card.

So Vudu's prices aren't that out of line. Some are a little more others a little less.

It's all about impulse and convenience...

FYI: I still prefer to own physical copies of content that I buy...

[tamanaco]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

I can pretty much tell you that from what I know the smart card is tied directly to the encryption key for the box.

I understand perfectly what the technology is capable of. I'm not arguing about that. But we could sit and discuss "shoulds" all day long and it makes not one bit of difference because the way things "should" be is not reality but fantasy. I repeat again: I am not aware of a single smart card device on the market that lets me take and move that card to a different device and get content there. It doesn't happen.

Clients talking about the "shoulds" is what makes companies improved their products. If everything is fine and dandy with the Vudu box then why are we discussing issues in this forums?... "Should" it have an external hard drive? "Should" Vudu allow for longer grace period for rental? "Should" Vudu or the Vudu box do this or that... Not so long ago there were threads about "Should" Vudu make HD and HDX content available for purchase? Without any "shoulds" I hardly feel that there is a need for this forum.

You're hung on the smartcard (The device)... it could be a key for all I care. I'm talking about a portable "token" to allow non-repudiation. If you leave the States you'll find that cell phones, smartcards and USB drives are being used for non-repudiation for the delivery of goods. In Japan you can call a vending machine from an authorized cell phone enter your password and get a soda. Content delivered non-repudiation fulfilled. It's not about the smartcard or encryption is about ensuring the identity of the user to whom you are delivering goods or services via a mobile token.

All I'm looking for is convenience and flexibility from the Vudu box. Heck, I probably won't be purchasing any titles at any resolution, but I'd like this service (Vudu feature) to be successful... Why?... Because it'll bring more users and more revenue to Vudu. If that happens then the Vudu service will grown and software will continue to improve and "all" of us will benefit from it. "Should" Vudu make every effort to allow video that users purchased to play anywhere and in multiple devices?. I think the answer is that if they don't a competitor soon will.

[illuscon]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

I don't know how you go from hundreds to most. I believe that hundreds do and "most" do not.

I cited but one source from a nationally known and reputable firm that manages hundreds of accounts that happily provide financial information on their privately owned businesses. It is ridiculous of you to declare that a privately owned business would shy away from publicly announcing positive financial information if that information would help attract new investment capital and customers.

What exactly is your evidence that most private companies do not? Intuition? Gut feeling? Hunch? Voodoo? The only companies I know who not declare at least some portion of their financial health publicly might be hiding something from their venture partners or customers. I'm not saying that is the case here but VUDU's lack of disclosure is troubling. Some in the press have picked up on VUDU's non-disclosure stand. So whether VUDU likes it or not, they are going to be held accountable should users get stuck with purchased films that cannot be accessed because VUDU no longer exists. Certainly the recent round of layoffs, executive exits and fire sale pricing should give the user some pause. So we'll just wait and see what happens.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

What exactly is your evidence that most private companies do not? Intuition? Gut feeling? Hunch? Voodoo?

I'm going with the fact that you only found hundreds that do and I know there are many more than that. Extrapolating from that that most do is in no way valid. I'm going from the fact that I have worked for several private companies and have friends that work at many others. We have noted over the years, and been told by the CEOs and CFOs of those companies, and therefore extrapolated that not reporting financials is the norm for private companies. I also have friends who are in VC firms and they have said the same thing. And lastly, I have investments in about a dozen private companies at the moment and none of them report their financials. I wouldn't expect to find a list of companies that report that they are not reporting their financials so I don't know what you would possibly expect.

Also, I wouldn't extrapolate from going into a doctors office that the majority of people are sick, or that most cars are broken by going to a car dealership service department, just because I find clusters of them. Nor, would I expect to have to provide a rigorous proof to the contrary. Sometimes common sense is the right answer.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

All I'm looking for is convenience and flexibility from the Vudu box.

I agree that it would be great if things were more flexible. For a start, I'd like to watch things purchased on one of my 5 boxes on any of them, especially if I decide to purchase something. Buying 5 copies makes absolutely no sense.

[illuscon]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

All I'm looking for is convenience and flexibility from the Vudu box. Heck, I probably won't be purchasing any titles at any resolution, but I'd like this service (Vudu feature) to be successful... Why?... Because it'll bring more users and more revenue to Vudu. If that happens then the Vudu service will grown and software will continue to improve and "all" of us will benefit from it. "Should" Vudu make every effort to allow video that users purchased to play anywhere and in multiple devices?. I think the answer is that if they don't a competitor soon will.

I think that any approved external device for personal archival or playback is a long way off, if ever. Patrick Cosson told me once that VUDU made some bad initial contracts with studios that tie them to the box for a long, long time. I'm guessing VUDU's business model did not foresee the eventually that everybody and their mom would offer VOD and the field would be so crowded, so quickly.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Certainly the recent round of layoffs, executive exits and fire sale pricing should give the user some pause. So we'll just wait and see what happens.

I agree that Vudu's future is far from certain at this point. But then again, I have friends and family members that have been laid off from all different sorts of companies (small/large, public/private). We will definitely have to wait and see, regardless of whether they report financials or not. Then again, as a customer who mostly rents, I will end up just being disappointed and not feeling like I lost any owned content if they go under.

[illuscon]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

I'm going with the fact that you only found hundreds that do and I know there are many more than that. Extrapolating from that that most do is in no way valid. I'm going from the fact that I have worked for several private companies and have friends that work at many others. We have noted over the years, and been told by the CEOs and CFOs of those companies, and therefore extrapolated that not reporting financials is the norm for private companies. I wouldn't expect to find a list of companies that report that they are not reporting their financials so I don't know what you would possibly expect.

Also, I wouldn't extrapolate from going into a doctors office that the majority of people are sick, or that most cars are broken by going to a car dealership service department, just because I find clusters of them. Nor, would I expect to have to provide a rigorous proof to the contrary. Sometimes common sense is the right answer.

Sorry, that doesn't wash. You wrote that no private companies provided financial information. Within a few minutes I found a nationally known resource that listed hundreds of private companies that did disclose that information and more. Do you seriously doubt there are more? Now you're telling me your friends and former employers are your standard? I'm not even going to touch your ludicrous doctor office/car service department analogy.

With all due respect, what do I expect is VUDU to give users a state of the business report with at least some supporting financial documentation to prove that they are still worthy of investing anymore of their hard earned money on. I also expect VUDU to do this graciously and not have to dragged to a podium to do it. VUDU should do this because it is the right thing to do in a business climate that demands customer loyalty be rewarded with reasonable transparency, not dismissive moderator sarcasm.

However, if doctor office and service department parables give you comfort when you make a personal financial decisions, then turn your head and cough. I would be concerned that the films I purchased that are sitting on the "cloud" are in serious jeopardy.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Sorry, that doesn't wash. You wrote that no private companies provided financial information.

You have me mistaken with someone else. I said that "many" and "most" do not. I never said that none do.