VUDU vs Satellite

[aaronwt]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

I see FIOS just launched their HD VOD in my area. All the new pay titles are $5.99 which is the same as VUDU . I'll have to try one out and compare it to VUDU. FIOS VOD is done by IP but it is also Mpeg2 so it needs alot of bandwidth.

[HeadHodge]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

But RainX won't work. The problem isn't rain on the dish. It's the fact that the incoming satellite signal scatters off the rain drops. That's the issue...

That's where Lex Luther would come in handy. He would be able to make you a magnetronic H2O polarizer that would easily orient the rain drops properly in your immediate area to actually amplify the Sat signal to your Dish. I use to be a tropospheric radio relay specialist in the Portland Air Guard, so I know it can be done!!

(As an aside: we would always get in trouble for calling a Travelling Wave Amplifier Tube by it's acronymn!)

It's a very good question and no one who posts here has the answer. The studios seem to make sure that all the VOD providers have the same terms for viewing (ie: 30 days and 24 hours after starting viewing, rentals 30 days after DVD release, etc.). But they don't seem to provide the same content to all services. Who knows. Maybe DirecTV paid more money for the DD movies.

Well I've been honeing up a little on my encoding techniques. Do you know who actually does the MPEG4 encoding of the movie content for VUDU?

If you watch the Steve Jobs keynote speech at CES 2008, he clearly makes it sound like Apple is doing it themselves for ATV.

I've just scratched the surface of the topic, but it's very interesting. I now understand some basic vocabulary, like SDI, SDI HD, Parellel SDI, and 3G SDI, and multichannel SDI. It's pretty neat stuff.

Oddly enough I found a lot of my info at BlackMagic.com. They make some cool PCIx gadets for the professional video production wannabes.

Regards

(p.s. my attempt to make this thread less relevant but more interesting for the Master!!)

[RonV]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

Well I've been honeing up a little on my encoding techniques. Do you know who actually does the MPEG4 encoding of the movie content for VUDU?

If you watch the Steve Jobs keynote speech at CES 2008, he clearly makes it sound like Apple is doing it themselves for ATV.

VUDU does their own encoding. H.264 is the standard that they are using. Here is the reference I use:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC

[HeadHodge]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

VUDU does their own encoding. H.264 is the standard that they are using. Here is the reference I use:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC

Thanks!! It's really interesting stuff.

The part about the patent infringement battle with Qualcomm was interesting too, because Qaulcomm has a huge economic influence here in the San Diego area. The name of the Chargers Football stadium is even called Qualcomm Stadium and they have their own road, called Qualcomm Way.

Although I read a lot about about the specs for the resulting encoded format and levels of quality, I didn't really see any mention of any corresponding requirements for video inputs.

So if I'm reading it correctly, then I'm assuming you could either take a crappy video or a high-res video and compress them both into the same output format.

If that's true then do you know what video format is typically being provided by the various studios for encoding. i.e. raw SDI or SDI HD on some sort physical media, like a disk or hard drive?

And do you know if the studios impose restrictions on the level of encoding that can be done with the video content they provide to VUDU? Or is it just a matter of what video format the studio supplies that determines the movie's quality? i.e. whether it's SD or HD and stereo or DD.

I'm just curious after thinking about NA9D's comment about VUDU possibly not opting to pay a higher license fee in order to be able obtain or provide an HD encoded version of a movie.

Anyways, hope I'm not being too nosy. Thanks in advance for your replies.

Regards
Bob

[NA9D]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

The video quality is determined by two things:

1.) The Source Material
2.) Encoding - Including level of compression, bit rate, etc.

Predominantly, if you see a poor quality video on Vudu, then it's the source material. I'm not sure if it's available to everyone yet, but check out Color of the Cross Part II. The video quality is absolutely awful. There's breakup in the first few minutes, etc. It looks like crappy YouTube type stuff. It's the source material. And don't ask me how I know this about an obscure movie on the box!

So you can take a good source or a crappy source and encode it into MPEG-4/H.264. Due to the compression and bit rate limiting, there will be degradation of any source material. But they try to minimize that as much as possible but this is one reason why HD content on Vudu isn't as good as BluRay. It's impossible with today's bandwidths to stream a 25 Gigabyte movie file in real time. Maybe some day!

What is the format of the source material Vudu receives? I don't know. I have asked and have not received an answer. My assumption therefore is that it's on a need to know basis and I don't have a need to know.

So, now on paying fees for HD licensing - I have no idea. That was certainly a guess. I wouldn't put any stock in it.

[HeadHodge]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

What is the format of the source material Vudu receives? I don't know. I have asked and have not received an answer. My assumption therefore is that it's on a need to know basis and I don't have a need to know.

Thanks for that great reply!!!

And also thanks for at least asking.

I think the whole topic is not only fascinating but intriguing as well. It seems like it's either a well kept secret that is done with part Vudu and part Black Magic, or it's simply such new technology that hardly anyone really knows how it's done.

It seems like everyone and their mother is doing it though. Perhaps it's a case of where the masses use a calculator to do their math, but no one really understands how they work.

Please let me know if you get any more insight.

Regards

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask....... So tell me again how did you stumble onto a movie like Color of the Cross Part II??

[HeadHodge]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

It's impossible with today's bandwidths to stream a 25 Gigabyte movie file in real time. Maybe some day!

I can't get FIOS, so I don't know much about it. Just that it involves fiber optic as a transmission medium.

If everybody had something like FIOS, do you think it would then be possible??

[redwein]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

I think the whole topic is not only fascinating but intriguing as well.

From Merriam-Webster Online:

Main Entry: intriguing Function: adjective Date: 1752 : engaging the interest to a marked degree : fascinating <an intriguing story>

So yes, I would say it is both fascinating and intriguing. I suppose it would be even more fascinating if it weren't.

[RonV]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

I can't get FIOS, so I don't know much about it. Just that it involves fiber optic as a transmission medium.

If everybody had something like FIOS, do you think it would then be possible??

BlueRay DVD averages about 25 mbps to deliver their picture. Fiber can deliver this but there is still the issue of source and latency. I am not sure what FIOS speeds are out there since they don't offer the service in my area.

When I was working in Milwaukee last year we had TimeWarner deliver a OC-3 (155.52 Mbps) and OC-12 (622.08 Mbps) for a massive MPLS VoIP/Data network. Of course we didn't have the raw bandwidth we just purchased what we needed but the capacity was there. If we needed more we just logged into the managment portal. Set the rate and waited about 5 minutes and the bandwidth was there. Of course the bill would arrive next month and a bit of work needed to be done on the MPLS so we could blanace the usage.

[HeadHodge]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

BlueRay DVD averages about 25 mbps to deliver their picture.

I think I read is that BluRay is also MPEG4 encoded. Do you if this is correct?

If not wouldn't you be able to encode the content with one of the higher MPEG4 bitrate levels that would be the same or closely emulate the same quality but at maybe a lower mbps rate?

Regards

[HeadHodge]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

From Merriam-Webster Online:

Main Entry: intriguing Function: adjective Date: 1752 : engaging the interest to a marked degree : fascinating <an intriguing story>

So yes, I would say it is both fascinating and intriguing. I suppose it would be even more fascinating if it weren't.

Ouch!!! I just got blindsided and broadsided by redwein.

Touche!! Your point this time redwein, but just remember I don't get back...... I get even!!!

[RonV]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

I think I read is that BluRay is also MPEG4 encoded. Do you if this is correct?

The BlueRay standards require VC-1, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 decoders in the box. What the disc uses is up to the content provider....

[NA9D]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

I think the whole topic is not only fascinating but intriguing as well. It seems like it's either a well kept secret that is done with part Vudu and part Black Magic, or it's simply such new technology that hardly anyone really knows how it's done.

Oh Video encoding is not at all black magic if you know what you are doing. It's not all that well kept of a secret. Vudu probably has some proprietary encoding schemes which might help with compression efficiency or bit rates but if they claim that it ends up as an H.264 file then it pretty much can be played back on any authorized H.264 player. Of course, since Vudu is a closed system at this point, they wouldn't have to be truly H.264 compliant but could do a modified version of H.264. I have no idea what they do. I'm simply a beta tester and I get thrown a new software build and am told, "Here test this and see if it works."

If you want to play with video encoding and so forth there's lots of software that you can download that can change formats, etc. On the Mac side, the bigger players are items like MPEG Streamclip (this might be available for Windoze too) and Visual Hub. I like Visual Hub because it seems the fastest and most reliable. And you can convert any video format to just about anything else and adjust bit rate, frame rate, etc. Just be aware that video encoding via software takes a LONG time - typically an hour of video takes 45 to 50 minutes to re-encode. There are hardware decoders available that do it in DSP much faster. These have become popular with people that have iPods or iPhones as for some reason Apple has seen fit to only support MPEG-4 or H.264 on those devices...I find few portable devices can actually support MPEG-2 anyhow. I can't even find an MPEG-2 player for my Windows Mobile 5 HP iPAQ! CorePlayer supports just about every other player but MPEG-2. Wish I knew why...

As for FiOS and supporting a 25 Gigabit file, let's think about this. Right now, it takes 4 Mb/sec on the Vudu to stream a file that's about 3 to 4 Gigs in size. That would then require a 6 to 8 fold increase in bandwidth. So you need something on the order of 24 to 30 Mb/sec. Certainly fiber can do this. As Ron pointed out you can get hundreds of Megabytes of bandwidth. in fact, the most reliable form factor for gigabit ethernet is fiber. And companies are looking at 10 GigE or 100 GigE now days. That's still very expensive. One of the companies I sell for produces driver amplifiers for high speed fiber optic application. These driver amplifiers are nice small components but cost hundreds of dollars! Basically with fiber you have virtually unlimited bandwidth. The difficulty then becomes the cost of delivering that bandwidth over distance...

[HeadHodge]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

Oh Video encoding is not at all black magic if you know what you are doing. It's not all that well kept of a secret.

Well I must say I think you've really out done yourself. That was an excellent explanation, very enlightening for this refrigerator bulb!

But I think that's only half the story. The story still needs to be told how the movie gets from 24fps film to the encoder in order to complete the big picture.

Best Regards

(p.s. I'm currently cringing in a corner waiting for redwein to tell me that Vudu is the same as Black Magic)

[redwein]

Re: VUDU vs Satellite

(p.s. I'm currently cringing in a corner waiting for redwein to tell me that Vudu is the same as Black Magic)

I'm on vacation in Las Vegas. That's why I only posted that "useful" comment earlier.